Author Topic: Ta152H-1 vs. Temp  (Read 1160 times)

Offline NOD2000

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« on: August 11, 2002, 11:44:50 PM »
ok the other day i was in a ta152 at 20,000ft and i dive down on a temp at 15,000ft it turns tail and runs....strait down so of corse i follow it down...........i pull out of the dive before him and run wave top where my wings are creaking with WEP on to start the climb back up.............when i look back out of my cockpit to see this same dang temp at 1.1k then before i decide to pull up i look again its at 1.0k then it gets to 500yrd (note: my wings are stilll creaking bad) so i run through a convoy of mine and he gets blaseted to pices..........after i saw this i think nawwww that can't be right no way that was right i looked in 5 diffrent books each said that the ta152H-1 has a top speed 20mph faster then any of the temps..................ok so how was that catching up to me like that .............hmmmmmmm can u say WRONG!!!!!!!!! BIG TIME WRONG!!!!!!!!!! i think hitech needs to look at that one..........

Offline Kweassa

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2002, 11:49:20 PM »
1) How you managed your zoom sequence greatly effects your ability to climb away. Even a 109G-10 would be caught up by a A6M5b Zero if the pilot doesn't manage the zoom sequence right.

 2) Tempest reaches its top speed at what altitude? What about the Ta-152H-1? Are you not disregarding this fact?

Offline NOD2000

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2002, 11:53:55 PM »
yah i did my books both list speed at 1,000ft and at 10,000ft....... and the thing is that i never pulled off wave top cuz i kept looking back and he was catching me at the same alt with my wings about to rip off................that still ain't right............

Offline Kweassa

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2002, 11:58:28 PM »
Nothing outruns the tempest at low altitudes, except the Me263 and the Arado234. Your books are wrong.

Offline NOD2000

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2002, 12:12:14 AM »
5 diffrent books are wrong........................ .yah right.........lol and top speeds only change mabey 1 or 2 mph form 1,000ft to 4ft off the ground in variables not no 20 mph........i think mabey ur info is wrong.......or ur just partial to that plane............and um.... y didn't u just say that in the fist place ;) :p ;P cuz those books havn't been wrong yet.......

Offline XNachoX

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2002, 01:07:37 AM »
Speak english NOD jesus....

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2002, 01:34:41 AM »
Look, there are so many factors involved here that it can't be explained with 1 thing.

 Of all those factors the highest one which would account for this matter, in my opinion, is the problems encontered in the pilot himself, not the plane. This is about 90% of how it is when "FM" or "Plane Data vs AH combat results" issues are brought up. A film, if you had one, would be a big help in clarifying this.

 ....

 This assumption justfies itself all the more since I have reason to believe you have no idea on the speed performance comparison between the Ta152H-1 and the Tempest MkV.

 In Aces High, the Tempest MkV does about 388mph at sea level with war emergency power engaged. On the other hand, the Ta152H-1 does only 363mph with MW50 engaged at sea level. Yes, it is roughly a 20mph difference, but the Tempest is 20mph faster. The Tempest MkV is faster than the Ta152H-1 in practically all altitudes under 17k, except for the small margin between 9k and 13k. It is only over 17~18k the Ta152H-1 is faster than the Tempest. If you want to dispute this fact, you'd have to be a lot more specific than saying 'my 5 books say so', since I doubt anyone else has ever seen data claiming Ta152H-1 is faster than the Tempest at low altitudes.

 And also bear in mind this is the Ta152H-1 we are talking about, not the Ta152C which was even faster than the H model and much more fit for use in conventional altitudes between 10k and 20k. It is more than likely the Ta152C your '5 books' are referring to if they indeed do claim the Ta152 is faster than the Tempest in altitudes between sea level and 20k.

 ...

 Now, in my opinion, this is what happened.

 Analysis based on the event you have described shows that the Tempy driver was probably better than you. Either that, or just pure chance he lured you to an altitude where it was optimum for him, and disadvantageous for you. Despite you had altitude(=speed) advantage, the prolonged dive and chase effectively neutered the differences in E state. As you two both reached sea level the Tempest actually gained higher E state.

 The moment you broke off, the Tempy driver, who probably was carefully watching your move probably did this: he more than likely also pulled off from extension and began to climb in a E-wise immelmann in to you. Since the Tempest is both faster and climbs WAY better than the Ta152H-1 at sea level(better, as in at least 1000 feet per minute) it is not surprising he would catch up with you.

 I'd bet my last dollar that 1) you had wrong data, 2) you made a move you shouldn't have done, and 3) now blame the data for the mistakes you've done.

 ..

 If there is any explanation better than this, or a film that could prove me wrong, or have specific data on the speed performance of the Ta and the Tempy, please state it.

Offline whgates3

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2002, 01:47:14 AM »
maybe AH modeled in the reduced efficiency of your A/C after the skin in the wings wrinkled (that creaking sound you heard)

Offline Karnak

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2002, 02:07:39 AM »



The dive to sealevel was well more than enough to neutralize the extra energy from the altitude advantage you started with.  Once on the deck the advantage was all to the Tempest.
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Offline Naudet

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2002, 04:36:55 AM »
Quote
And also bear in mind this is the Ta152H-1 we are talking about, not the Ta152C which was even faster than the H model and much more fit for use in conventional altitudes between 10k and 20k. It is more than likely the Ta152C your '5 books' are referring to if they indeed do claim the Ta152 is faster than the Tempest in altitudes between sea level and 20k.


As far as i know this is not really true.
The TA152C was optimized for an altittude of 20k-30k, while the TA152H was designed for used above 30K.

If you just look at speed an climb below 20K, the plane of choice in the LW-arsenal would be the FW190D9 with the JUMO213A, even the later FW190D models (D11-13) would fall short in comparison to the D9 below 12-15k (with "fall short" i mean they would be only 2-3 miles behind the D9 curves), while they would be clearly superior to the D9 above 20k.

Most off this is due to the usage of the JUMO213E (in FW190D 11-13 and in TA152H1), which is designed mainly for high altittude performance.
TA152C uses the DB603L an engine also designed for high alts.
While the D9 uses the JUMO213A which is a better low alt engine than the above mentioned, equivilant to them at med alt and inferior to them at high alts.


The Temp is THE low altittude propeller plane in AH, i think below 15K you have a clear advantage in it against everything that uses an airscrew.
Only LA7 & D9 come close in speed, and LA7 & Spit XIV in climb.
But hey, than you still have the 4xhispanos together with this incrible E retention.

Offline Karnak

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2002, 04:43:37 AM »
Naudet,

The Bf109G-10 will also climb with the Tempest.
Petals floating by,
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Offline Naudet

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2002, 04:47:56 AM »
I said propeller planes, not rockets camouflaged in a propplane 3D model. ;)

Offline Wotan

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2002, 07:01:06 AM »
what 5 books are you reading with such obvious errors.?

post isbn so I know what to avoid.

Offline Vermillion

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2002, 10:41:13 AM »
I'd have to check, but the F2G is one wartime prop job that might run with a Tempest down low, and I pretty sure it will initially outclimb it.

Of course, there were about as many F2G's as there were total Ta152's that made it too combat units.  And actually more than Ta152H1's. ;)  

Now how many of you guys know what a F2G is without looking it up? :p

But sheesh..... Chase a Tempest down low with a Ta152, and then complain because you gave him your six and he ran you down ?!?!!  LOL!

Offline AKDejaVu

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Ta152H-1 vs. Temp
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2002, 10:50:31 AM »
Are we talking top speed or speed before wings start creaking?

AKDejaVu