Greenhouse effect?

[-dead-]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Lots of humans = Asia
Kind of Ironic that -dead- from Hong Kong posted that.  Prepping for the future?
Masher

Hmmm...
Filthy old Asia!
Current API for Hong Kong:
http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/e/api/current/cur_api.htm
Air Pollution Index Forecast at 22:47 HKT , Mon , 12 Aug 2002
    API Air Pollution Level
Forecast for Tonight and Tomorrow's Highest
General Station 20 to 45 Low to Medium
Roadside Station 40 to 60 Medium to High  
http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/e/api/forecast/forecast.htm
API ratings explained:
http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/E/api/advice/advicef.htm

Versus
Clean-living USA
Today's Air Pollution Forecast for Detroit (sorry closest I got to Redford)
Air Quality: Unhealthy for Sensitive Groups  Pollutant: Ozone
http://www.wunderground.com/forecasts/DTW.html
And
Detroit  Today's Forecast
OZONE  
Health message : Active children and adults, and people with respiratory disease, such as asthma, should limit prolonged outdoor exertion.
http://www.epa.gov/cgi-bin/airnow.cgi?MapDisplay=WHEREILIVE&MapDomain=mi#detroit

Strange, you guys in the clean USA are worse off than us today. Some mistake, surely!?! Or maybe it's you that are prepping us for the future...
BTW where in the West is Kyoto? - doesn't seem to be in the US

[H. Godwineson]

A number of solutions to this problem are available:

1.  Population control;  China has policies in place, but violates the rights of its own citizens to enforce them.  India has no policies that I know of.  

2.  Modernization of their factories:  The purpose of this would be to reduce the level of pollutants.   A big dollar project.

3.  Hiring and training personnel and purchasing equipment to fight their forest fires.    New policies of timber harvest to reduce the likelihood of new fires breaking out.

It is going to take a big financial commitment on the part of these countries to implement the changes that are needed.  Even if they have the money they are going to be unwilling to spend it.  

Who do you think they're going to turn to for financial aid to make these changes?  Are you, as an American taxpayer, willing to shoulder the burden?


Regards, Shuckins

[Saintaw]

Blame asia, right...

Who's the biggest petroleum consumer out there ?

More here http://daac.gsfc.nasa.gov/CAMPAIGN_DOCS/OCDST/asian_dust.html

[Modas]

Originally posted by Hortlund
It is kinda screwed that we all should have to pay for all the moronic 3rd world countries and their complete disregard for the environment though.

India, China, Indonesia...

Well, that is a good idea, unfortunately, a response to that is this thought

We (the U.S., Europe, etc) all got to cut down our trees, pollute the air during the 1800's early 1900's while we were developing.  Now that our countries are deleloped and prospering, we can afford to say "Geez, maybe we shouldn't be polluting the air like this, especially now that we know about the harm that is being done."

Why shouldn't the developing countries have that same right??

I'm all for protecting the air, cleaning stuff up etc, but I'm not a tree hugger for sure.  We can't impose regulations on pollution on developing countries when we've done the exact same thing 100 or so years ago and expect them to accept it with open arms

[capt. apathy]

I'd like to see trade restrictions where we are not allowed to import any products from countrys who don't meet minimum pollution controle standards.

as it is not only do we have countrys who freely polute water and air (that the whole world ends up sharing) with no restrictions. but our own american companys find that cheap option so apealing that they close down their factorys here and ship the jobs overseas.

you'd also find more americans willing to vote for higher standards on ourselves if we knew the playing feild would be leveled and we wouldn't have to compete for our job with somebody who has no restrictions adding to the cost of manufacturing.

as it is most manufacturing jobs happen out of sight of the average consumer and they have no idea the volume of waste that can be generated in a manufacturing plant.(you should see the amount of chemicals released here, inspite of our regulations. they need to be much stronger)

[miko2d]

Modas: Why shouldn't the developing countries have that same right?
 It is supposed to be for their own good. Arguably, the developed countries can very well deal with drastic climate changes, raise in the ocean level, etc.
 It gets 20 degrees colder? There is no problem in Canada or scandinavia. It gets 20 degrees cooler? Texas and Florida may be not the most convenient places to live climate-wise, but people are migrating there, not leaving those places. Western civilisation can apparently prosper in quite a range of climates.

 We work/live mostly indoor and breeze filtered level most of the time - no big deal doing it all the time with even more efficient filtering.
 Holland is mostly below sea level - and we can all protect our shorelines by 4-foot high concrete walls. Or 40-foot high. Same with river floods - we will just build more dams and retaining walls.
 Same Holland has extremely productive hydroponic/hothouse agriculture. Israel has been using very advanced irrigation systems for years. We can all do the same.
 If it gets hotter or cooler, we can make our houses more efficient and continue heat/aircondition them.
 Our water is purified anyway. Our disease control is decent and can be made better.

 It just takes some money - and we have plenty of that. The whole thing can even be beneficial to our economy - like war of highway building was - by generating new jobs, industries and technologies.

 Now, the third world countries - those will just die out in droughts, floods, famines, epidemics, massacres, etc.
 View it like that - we (developed countries) had to cut down our forests and poison our people with coal smoke, etc. for 200 years untill  technology developed to do things cleaner and more efficiently.
 Thirld world countries do not have to suffer through that - they can adopt our tested technology. It may be a bit longer and more expencive for them in the beginning - but nowhere as long as 200 years. Or even 20.

 miko

[Eagler]

"It gets 20 degrees cooler? Texas and Florida may be not the most convenient places to live climate-wise"

I'll take 20 cooler now

and maybe 20 cooler will reduce the flow of invading senile ppl from the great north Oct through Apr

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Saintaw
Blame asia, right...

Yeah, but who's got the funky brown cloud?

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/12/asia.haze/index.html

-Sikboy

[Saintaw]

I was refering to the general effects of greenhouse(that was not clear, I know, srry), this one is aerial, but check out the sea polution paterns near US and Europe.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Saintaw
I was refering to the general effects of greenhouse(that was not clear, I know, srry), this one is aerial, but check out the sea polution paterns near US and Europe.

Yeah, I knew that, and I didn't mean to imply that this was evidence of greenhouse hoodoo, I had just ready this article and was itching to post it

-Sikboy

[Thrawn]

Hortland, nothing to indicate it's an Urban Legend.



I believe this is just beginning.  I think it's going to get worse before it gets better...alot worse.

But I think that by us pointing fingers at each other on this, we are making the first positive steps in dealing with what's happening to OUR atmosphere.

[Dowding]

Question: who owns these factories in the third world and where do they originate from?

Where are the factory/power station construction companies based?

I'll give you a hint. It's not the third world.

[Gyro/T69]

Question: who owns these factories in the third world and where do they

   Maybe the governments of these countries should inact tough new pollution laws to deal with these problem? Or are these countries really just slave labor camps owned by the factories owners?


Gy

[Cobra]

Originally posted by Dowding
Question: who owns these factories in the third world and where do they originate from?

 

Dowding,
Do you have any experience with regards to this issue?  I mean real-life, not reading stats about it, experience.

I do.

I worked for a Fortune 100 Company and was responsible for Factory Demand Planning for our factories in US, Europe, and yes HK and China.  And for sourcing overseas.

I used to visit HK and China every 3 months for a few years.

Answer: Who owns these factories....Chinese...in some instances to be more specific the PLA of the PRC (unofficially of course).

We had our factory there and it was leased through the Chinese, who are very happy to do this.  There is no arm-twisting involved at all....hell it's backed by the PRC government and encouraged.  

Did you know that even to import goods into China you have to show documented proof that you intend to use PRC labor to convert that good into another product and export it back out of the PRC within 6 months (at least in the industries I worked in).  You see, China stipulates that it will be a nation of exporters and to do that, you need factories and lots of em.  Visit Shenzhen (and surrounding provinces) and you'll know that to true.

Sorry, can't entirely blame the West on this one.  Not once you've actually been involved in it.

As far as that cloud....I've seen it, or more to the point, tasted it....and -dead-'s little air quality snippet above....Both cities are equally as bad, but in HK when I've visited, the summer is the worst, and many days you can't see beyond the harbor it's so bad.

Cobra

[capt. apathy]

you can however blame us for not requiring all products sold here to meet minimum environmental statndards, regardless of where they are made