Aircraft Factories

[Charon]

Damn straight I want my instant gratification. I put my dues in to play this game. Therefore, I want to fly what I want and how I want. If I want a Spit V to furball with, then I want it immediately. I paid for it, therefore the choice is mine.

I want my dammed Spit 14, I want it now, I dont want to pay any perks, I don't care if there would be too many in the arenas, I pay my $15 a month so HTC had better listen to me!

Surely, Nifty, you would support my wish.


Charon

[Shane]

Originally posted by Nifty
As it is now, a Typhoon can come in, drop 1 bomb, change the angle a bit, and drop the 2nd bomb and wipe out quite a bit of town buildings.  Then turn around and 20mm the town to death.  With these changes, you pretty much have to get a lot of coordinated JABOs or you get a few buffs to carpet bomb the town.  Gameplay changes little, you still wipe out a town to take a field.  You just can't do it with a couple of Typhoons anymore.

properly executed any *one* of these planes is capable of wiping out a town by itself, with no interference and very well placed ordnance.

p38l
p47d-25
p47d-30
typhoon
me110g-2
mosquito
f4u-1d
f4u-1c
f6f-5
p51-d


i agree, make the towns harder and/or spread them out a bit.   and perhaps put the map room back on base but require the city to still be flattened.

[Maverick]

Anything that prohibits an aircraft choice (outside of the perk "system") is counter productive to AH. Think about it. If you log on and you can't regularly fly the plane of YOUR choice, are you going to continue to play the game?

Said before. Fly the game the way you want to and stop trying to dictate to other what and how they will fly.
 

There are already quite a few players that log off whenever their country is down to a few or couple bases. The same will happen when they are down to fewer rides AND bases. It will just make it easier to gangbang the lower team by limiting the types of planes they can fly.

[Manxer]

This might be something that would work very well in the upcoming mission arena.

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by Nifty
This goes right back to what Lazs says.  Bomber pilots want the rest of the players to notice them.  Removing the a plane choice for an entire country by one or two players is nothing more than jumping up and down and saying "look at what we've done to you!"  
 

For starters....I can't believe you quoted lazs!:D

Seriously, though. From the position of one dedicated Bomber Pilot, I can honestly say I have no interest in disrupting the gaming experience of the Fighter Pilots.

However, Bomber pilots, IN GENERAL, tend to be more strategy oriented than Furball dedicated Fighter pilots. I say generally, as there are always exceptions to the rules.

So, as a bomber pilot, I have no interest in taking out a specific plane. My interest lies in upsetting the overall balance of the game/war in favor of my country. Unfortunatly, Strategic targets are useless at this point, and field/town destruction is not a strategic taget, and can be detroyed more quickly with a Jabo raid.

So, at this point, the Bomber Pilots who seek to play a strategic role in the game find themselves without targets.

Implimenting a system whereby a certain factory produces a certain plane, and once destroyed that plane is not available, is tampling on the gaming experience of the Fighter Pilots.

I think the fair way to implement a system liek this would be to let the factories destuction eliminate a random plane, or perk a random plane by a small amount.

If there are 10 factories, the most any one country can lose at one point would be 10 A/C from their inventory.

So you might lose the 205, F6F, A-20, 110, etc for a few hours.

If the system is random, it would be impossible to lose all the late war uber fighters. And to keep it fair, bombers can be eliminated by the same method. So a country may have to do without the Lanc, B-17, etc for a few hours.

Either use the above, or attach perks to the randomly selected aircraft.

Either way, it will bring Bombers back into the game, and not upset the balance drastically.

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by Maverick
Anything that prohibits an aircraft choice (outside of the perk "system") is counter productive to AH. Think about it. If you log on and you can't regularly fly the plane of YOUR choice, are you going to continue to play the game?

Said before. Fly the game the way you want to and stop trying to dictate to other what and how they will fly.
 

There are already quite a few players that log off whenever their country is down to a few or couple bases. The same will happen when they are down to fewer rides AND bases. It will just make it easier to gangbang the lower team by limiting the types of planes they can fly.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. When I do fly fighters (Not enough time to permit a bomber mission) I have my preferred rides. However, I discovered which rides I like by using what was made available through missions. If I was not quasi-forced to select the FM2 from a mission, I would be flying the P-51 since day one. Now I have developed a love for the FM2, F6F, P-51, A6M, Spit.

So perhaps I am in minority, but if the FM2 was disbabled, I would not log off. I would fly the Pony. If there were no Pony's, I move to the Hellcat, etc. If by some miracle ALL the planes I fly were disabled, I would try something new! Perhaps I would find a new favorite ride.

Also, when my country is down to a few fields, I also do not log off, as there is always a fight to be found. (If the fields are capped, that's another story.)

[Charon]

Anything that prohibits an aircraft choice (outside of the perk "system") is counter productive to AH. Think about it. If you log on and you can't regularly fly the plane of YOUR choice, are you going to continue to play the game?

I'm certainly missing something here Maverick -- why the qualifier about the perk system? I know some people who would love to fly the plane of their choice, the Spit 14 (or F4U-4, or Ta-152...). They have noted on this BBS that it really is the plane they love, and not just a high perf perk plane performance wise. While a Spit 14 is a quantum leap above a 1943 plane, it's not really that excessive by 1944-45 standards. They don't demand to fly it all the time, they haven't quit -- they just note that a lower perk or a change in Icon would be a reasonable solution. I get the impression, though, that adding a 10pt perk to the P-51D would somehow be a different issue from your perspective.

I would love to fly the Spit 16 LF (bubble top) myself, should it ever be modeled. I wouldn't quit AH though if I had to pay a light perk to do so. I wouldn't quit AH either if once a week, for a 1 hour period my favorite ride was unavailiable. Frankly, it probably wouldn't even register any irritation, but then that's my personality. In fact, there are few PC or console games that proivide full, instant gratification right from the start, every time.

When I consider the factory idea, it just seems to be something that would add a bit more spice to the strat concept, which hasn't interested me to any great extent so far (and for many years for that matter). Even if it just involves adding a perk cost to the plane instead of eliminating it. I'm not a bomber guy either, but aside from being fairly defensless targets I don't see them as having all that much impact as it stands today. This would be, IMO, a fun way to provide some. I can't really see any major player revolt with this concept if it is done correctly, but then I find it hard to believe that people can be so inflexible and still exist in modern society. Daily life must really be hell for some people.

Charon

[Nifty]

Charon, incorrect analogy.  HTC telling you what you can and can't fly is a big difference from one or two players telling you what you can and can't fly.  Collectively, the guys at HTC put in more hours per day working on the game than I put in a month flying the game (we won't count in hours I do for CM stuff when I'm up for the Friday TOD, but suffice it to say I work more on the TOD than I fly those 3 weeks.)  It is Dale and Doug's game.  They have every right to say what I can and can't fly.  They have every right to terminate my account (or CM privs) at any time; it's in the TOS.  You, however, do not have any right to tell me what I can and can't fly.  Well, not true, you can tell me what I can and can't fly, but you can't enforce it.  That's the difference.

Personally, Spit XIVs should be free, or close to it.  F4U-4s, definitely free or close to it.  However, HTC's game, HTC's decision.

The funny thing is, unless all Spits were tied to one factory, I doubt my Spit V factory would ever get hit.  If it was, I could fly another plane.  I enjoy other planes.  The last time I logged on...  I flew a Spit V, a P-47D-30, P-38L, and an A6M5b.  Oh and a PT boat as well.  However, I'm not thinking about just me.  I know that wiping out La-7's and N1K2's for example would upset a lot of players.  I'm not willing to do that myself, nor would I even want to see that as an option for players to remove choice from other players.

[Chairboy]

By your logic, Nifty, we should remove the abillity for a bomber to destroy Vehicle Hangars, Bomber Hangars, and Fighter hangars because those, as you must admit, also 'remove choice' for a player on what they can fly at a field.

How do you feel about:
1. Factories that just affect fighter production at nearby fields, allowing these planes to be flown in from behind the front.

2. A random planetype getting disabled by attacking Factories.

or

3. Factories that knock out uber planes, but they are never in the same place twice (eg, placed randomly in territory) so that reconnaissance is needed to bring 'em down.

?

[popeye]

Seems like the game is designed so players can affect other players' choices.  Kill two cruisers...no 8" guns to shoot.  Kill the last two VHs....no vehicles for that country.   Kill the ammo bunkers....no heavy bombers at that field.   Kill my last 262....I have to get more perks to fly another one.

Not sure that aircraft factories would be good for the game, but players affecting other players' choices wouldn't be a new thing.

[Charon]

As far as I know Nifty, there is no formal HTC policy on the factory idea. I'm sure HiTech is familiar with the concept, given his history with AW, and he may have a good reason for dismissing it, or he might even accept the idea at some point in the future. Overall, I am impressed with how this game is being managed and almost universally accept its direction, even if there are various areas where I might do something differently if I was running the show. Of course, I'm not.

Frankly, its pretty hard for me to get all that worked up about it either way, particularly since this is a theoretical discussion at this point. In fact, if the mission arena can deliver on the promise started with the CT, I doubt I would spend much time in the MA at all. I wish HiTech and Pyro and the rest of the HTC staff the best of luck in that regard! That will be a real challenge, as this thread seems to indicate.

I just think the aircraft factory provides an added strat motivator, both offensively and defensively, for people who could otherwise care less if digital airfield "A" belongs to rooks, knights or bishops. I would have to disagree that the impact on the player base would be as dramatic as you make it out to be, if the concept was handled properly. Here's another analogy:

Now, the C-hog trauma was a bit before my time at AH (I was still providing AW with some needless loyalty) but apparently one or two people though it was becoming a bit opressive in the MA. Numbers supported this. HiTech probably flew enough to see this himself. It was perked by HTC. A lot of people who probably never flew anything else suddenly had a minor inconvienience in regard to flying the C-hog at will. They apparently got over it. If it failed, it probably wouldn't have taken all that much to change things back.

I don't think I once told anybody what plane they should fly. I would personally go the small perk 1944 route with lower uber perks, but I haven't quit yet and certainly haven't demanded that this be the case at any time I can think of. I do wonder what the grand plan is for perks in the MA however, unless all the 1943 planes are just going to be useful in the future mission arena. And, unless you're speaking for HTC I have as much right to voice my opinion here as anybody else. HTC certainly has the right to ignore this or any other suggestion. But, my impression is that they are at least open to the player base offering new [well not exactly new in this case, but not exactly stale either] ideas.

Charon

[DarkHawk]

This game has an effect on everyone.
just think
1) kill barracks no troops
2) kill fuel only 25% available
3) kill ordance no bomber
4) kill Fighter hanges no fighter at that base
5) kill GV Hanger no ground vehicles
ETC.
Just think if you added fuel depots, supply depots, ammo dumps etc, for each one hit you could effect the supplies available for each zone, Kill a factory or series of factories, could effect the whole country.
Why not have restriction on the number of planes able to launch from a field.
Example, small field 5 planes per hanger or a single squad, medium field 2 squads, large field 4 squads, as each fighter hanger is destroyed this would effect the number of planes available at that field that could fly.  Is this not a war game lets add a little more RL.

Blast Away  

DarkHawk  

[SKurj]

The number of planes available doesn't work...

How often do you see a 5 plane mission? The mass of 10 or more is more common.

Permit a squad... why should that be any different than the # restriction...  can't let a squad of 15 people up (squad night) from a field and only 5 'others' tho the majority are in squads...  Not sure i understand Dark... The more i think about it the worse it seems...  If AH has 200 squads they each get one base?

Perhaps u are referring to missions...

The limits would have to be much larger than 5, maybe 15-20 or better yet infinite.  If a stealth raid comes in while there is a mission from that base.  Noone can intercept.  The mission that upped... well it was offence of course.. they aren't at home defending.  

SKurj

[Turbot]

In the end everyone has their opinion, but HiTech has his and I think that is the one that is going to prevail.  To have a blue million posts fighting over this serves no purpose.

[Grimm]

Originally posted by Charon

Frankly, its pretty hard for me to get all that worked up about it either way, particularly since this is a theoretical discussion at this point.Charon

You know.. I agree....   No wait, I think I should quite over this... LOL...    heheehehe just jerking a few chains  

I think discussion is a good thing, and Hitech gives us this board to toss things back and forth.  If some good Idea comes along, it might be implemented.  

I think I like the A/C factory Idea with the random plane distruction.   It could be fighter or bomber.    Think of this, an enemy bomber group passes over and destroys a factory, and it turns out to be one of the rotten planes,  It would be sorta funny.

Maybe other good idea will come outa this.