Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)

[Seeker]

Beautifully presented idea, But:....

In effect, apart from the visual representation of the individual buffs, once the buffs have formed they consist of a single entity under a single individual's control and multiple gunners.

Exactly as a single buff would operate with multiple gunners.

The only effective difference would be ordinance dropped.

SO we may as well cut straight to the chase and enable multiple gunners anyway, and leave the cockpit crew in the cockpit where they belong.

This would be by far my preferred solution: multiple gunners, but I beleive HT is reluctant to do it; I'm not sure why.

I miss squad "death star" missions, we used to have a hell of a lot of fun with Spiffy as pilot, Flossy as top or chin and the rest of us taking any empty positions. A real "squad event".

[Dowding]

Superb idea. I really like the idea of advertising for a master bomb-aimer too, once you near the target.

[StracCop]

 

..... .....

[maxtor]

Originally posted by Seeker

This would be by far my preferred solution: multiple gunners, but I beleive HT is reluctant to do it; I'm not sure why.
 

I have long wondered about this too.

I also liked how the scoring was a crew thing, everyone shared in the success of the ship.

[MOSQ]

The other night I took up a formation of B-17's and used the .target command to set a target at various ranges from the formation, and also variious positions around the formation.

I concluded the following:
The convergence factor problem is huge. When a fighter is attacking on a formation's six, there is a very limited range within which most of the formation's guns will converge. As I recall it was about 1000 yds. A little ways behind or in front of that range, and the planes on the side of the lead buff simply miss by a mile.

The same or worse goes for 3, 9 and 12 o'clock.

Having multiple gunners in a formation would make them much more accurate.

I really miss squad nights when our whole team would up in one or two buffs, all our virtual lives depnding on each other. The intercom function for the crew in the plane was a blast. The whole thing built great camaraderie among our squad.

MOSQ

[BGBMAW]

Mosq..its actually no tas bad as you say o rthink....

The other buffs guns do not converge where your center gun is shooting...


example...Im shooting ded 6 from Buff#1...

Buff #1' s bullets hit ded center..

Buff#2-3 both hit on each side of that center...

so..if a f4u is closing in..i aim for center of radial..I see sprites all over the Hog wings and radial.....


if you are shooting at 3 or 9 o klok..ur 2 buffs that are behind the lead will place there bullets behind(slightly) your lead buffs fire....


I think this is good.. 2 reasons......

1) You have this shotgun affect....I frikn Slay ftrs attaiking me

2) if all 18 50 cal machine gun sfiring backwards all conveged on a single space...NOT ONE FITER WOULD HAVE A CHANCE

they would be obliterated

And yes... I want the party Bus (deathstar ) that AW had too..multi gunned buffs are great....especially if we had a formation
love
BiGB
xoxo

[Easyscor]

I guess this is the time to state the gun convergence for the current buff formation model is 1000 yds.

[TheCollector]

A few observations (good thread, btw).  I apopligize in advance if somebody already suggested these:

1. Might it be easier to simply slave the bomb drop to a master bomber, instead of slaving the plane itself?  After losing 100+ perks to less-than-brilliant AR234 slaves, I am leery of handing 3 B-17s over to the ai  You could then concentrate on gunning once in formation.  You're going to have to get close to the lead either way, so why not use the built in autopilot system?

2. I like also the idea of inviting a bombardier on board.  Seems logical.

3. About a year and a half ago, a buddy of mine who is quadraplegic called HTC to find out why there can't be multiple gunners per buff (back then).  He was told that it was mainly a lag issue.  This may have changed by now, I don't know.  The reason I mention he is handicapped, is because he cannot fly the planes with his sip-and-puff mouse controller, but he enjoys gunning and probably would enjoy bombing too (He's not playing AH currently).  Think about that next time people say this should be a pure fighter game

The Collector  :{)}

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by StracCop
An idea....,

Okay, I've given this quite a lot of thought and I think I've come up with a solution that solves the two most glaring problems with the bomber model that I've heard with the most frequency: accuracy and vulnerability while in calibration-bombsite (this idea also addresses the peripheral issue of people refusing to use bombers under the new model - except as low level raiders.. ;-) .

1.  There is no accuracy problem unless you want to place your bombs in a tea cup.

2.  Calibrate before you meet fighters; if you can't, up at a more distant field.  

3.  Your peripheral issue is nonexistent.  I see more bombers today than I did 6 months ago. Furthermore, in the past, single buffs would come to a field at excessive altitude and fighters couldn't reach them!  Today, most (not all!) buffs avoid climbing to 25k.  What's the point in spending 45 minutes climbing if you're just going to bomb a troop factory?

4.  The guns today are deadlier than the guns which predated the buff change.  One plane cannot kill all 3 buffs without dying [unless there is a tremendous element of surprise and/or confusion.]

The tether business won't work.  A single flight (as it is today) has to pay close attention or it loses its drones!  I cannot imagine trying to keep 4 flights of 3 closely grouped.  I can just imagine the radio traffic. Slow down!!! I'm losing my drones!

Bombing isn't broken - instead, it's a task which require attention and forethought.  And best of all, the buffs are being used the way they should be used.

curly

[BGBMAW]

yes Curly..I agree...

Buff are running pretty well right now...

1 Fault which HT said hes still working on...

The 1 pass by a spitfire that kills the whole box of 17's....

Sometimes it explodes..somtimes it takes alot of damage...

I guess we can call this the 20 mil cannon found the Bombay in each B17 in a single pass..


BiGB
xoxo

[Ridge]

I admit, I have not been on this forum very long. I only chime in sporadically, as my post count would suggest.

But, IMO, this is the BEST idea I've read of on this board!

[StracCop]

AKcurly wrote: "And best of all, the buffs are being used the way they should be used."

Yea curly, you're right.
I see many more B-17's at 500 feet doing Jabo raids on the GV assaults and CVs then I ever have before.  Guess thats what they were designed for since they seem to do it so well.  Wonderful.  

The fact is that most players don't bother with BUFs anymore (at least not in the strategic bombing role)  because they are a pain:  a pain that is wholly attributable to a new bombing model that not only succeeds in introducing a greater likelihood of missing your target but also forces you to remain vulnerable to attack while you 'calibrate'.  

This might be fine for a few stalwarts and masochists but to most players its not worth the trouble or time as is clearly evidenced by their lack of 'proper' use in the MA.

Oh, and last night I finally saw my first large-scale strategic bombing raid in something like 3-4 months of looking.  It was 6 groups of B-17's.  Unfortunately, I wasn't in the air when the dark cloud appeared.  Bummer. Worse still, given the frequency with which I see this phenomenon I guess I'll have to wait another 3 months before I see another....unless I want to 'cap' at 1000 feet for the JABO BUFs.

[tjk964]

I think that's a great idea!! i have suggested in my message in here that we should be able to have 2 people attached in the plane as gunners not just one too.
          Your right,the calibration time is a hard one to defend your buff and keep the(drift) to a mininum to target.I luv the realizim in this game but it is (just a game) and under avg (new) pilots will not fly the buffs,cause its too long and too hard to bomb and hit targets,  great idea!!!!    (sawman)

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by StracCop
AKcurly wrote: "And best of all, the buffs are being used the way they should be used."

Yea curly, you're right.
I see many more B-17's at 500 feet doing Jabo raids on the GV assaults and CVs then I ever have before.  Guess thats what they were designed for since they seem to do it so well.  Wonderful.  
 

StracCop, you are correct about the 500 feet Jabo.  It seems like a disease that has swept through AH in the last 10 days.  I see wave after wave of Rook & Knight buffs coming in at 500 feet. I'm not seeing the Bishops doing that, but I'll bet they are!

curly

[AKIron]

When you calibrate meticulously and approach the target properly you should consistently hit the target. Currently, you don't. Because of the frustration level who can blame those finding and exploiting a loophole?