Author Topic: Anyone think this jail sentence reasonable? (Read 3207 times)

midnight Target · « **Reply #75 on:** August 29, 2002, 02:30:32 PM »

Did anyone else think it was ironically funny that lieing is a "hanging offense" at Elfies house?

Kanth · « **Reply #76 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:04:37 PM »

I would, but it's probably not true, like most of what Elfie says.

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Did anyone else think it was ironically funny that lieing is a "hanging offense" at Elfies house?

lazs2 · « **Reply #77 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:13:07 PM »

I am not the same person (in a lot of ways) that I was 20 years ago. The person I was 20 years ago deserved a 10 year sentence and everyone would have been better off. fortunately for me I avoided getting caught... Not so god for everyone else.

So.... I gotta look at things a little different. Sure, it all turned out ok but I know some of my former cronies got their hands slapped when they got caught and they are still up to making everyones life that they touch misserable... including their own.

The kid that broke into my house is exactly the same so far as I can see. I got lucky tho and he came onto my property later to do one of his jailhouse "In your face" intimidations. He had it down pretty good. (one can only speculate why they learn in jail but not in school eh?). Being a weak old man I didn't really hurt em too bad. I was scared tho that he was underage and was relieved when my daughters friends all gleefully told me that he was 19 and that if he went to the cops they would laugh in his (somewhat battered) face.

given my personal experiance I might give him another chance 10 or 20 years down the road... certainly others will if he moves to where no one knows him and he works at it.. In the meantime tho.... I would insist that he at the very least be given housing in seawulfies or 10 bears neighborhood if we can't put him in a cage for those 10 or 20 years.
lazs

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #78 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:17:56 PM »

I say once the tendency to commit crime is identified, you remove the ability of the person to commit the crime.

By that same token, I should be locked up behind bars then.

Care to re-evaluate your assessment?

What you don't seem to understand is that horseshit about "once a criminal, always a criminal" does NOT apply to a young kid.

And yes, this individual is a kid. You aren't an adult, even by the standards of law, until you are of the age of 18.

But this is just the typical American way of dealing with things that they don't have a fleeting clue about. "Oh, I'm a teacher, oh I'm a coach, oh I'm the big bad monster in this kids closet, based on my experiences, any kid that commits a crime will go on to be a mass murderer, so send 'em off to jail... so that just in case they won't turn out to be mass murderers, we'll ensure they will"

That's not what you mean? Oh, indeed it is and it's exactly what you've been saying the entire time.

Our prisons are overcrowded because of this. Problems aren't dealt with, they are just shoved into the corner to culminate.. and culminate.

When people learn that a kid who has a record is that way because adults diddlyed him over, then maybe you all will realize that it ain't the kid who deserves to be punished. Then maybe you'll take the time to devote to this kid to rehabilitate him. Then maybe you'll realize you can get a totally functional and working member of society out of a young kid who has a criminal record.

But hey, don't take my word for... afterall, I'm only a computer tech and you're a teacher. You have such a better understanding of how kids think and how to deal with 'em.

Which is exactly why you want them to go to jail, right? Your years of dealing with children has led you to one final conclusion: jail is the only solution for trouble makers.

Can't buy that... not all criminals go on to become mass murderers... lest I remind you of myself. There's still a chance of rehabilitation, so long as someone who cares, cares for this kid.

With jail... well, you effectively turned him into what you apparently wanted all along- a hardened criminal.

Call me a bleeding heart liberal, but since I see a lot of the "throw 'em in jail" coming from some religious folks, let me remind you: "What you do to the least of your brethren, you do to me."
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #79 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:18:42 PM »

SW-

Don't turn this to religion... God forgives, but you are also accountable for what you do. The Bible is full of proof of that point.

I'm willing to bet that many of the people here who think sentencing a teen is too harsh are viewing it in the abstract, and don't have actual direct contact with such persons on a daily, personal basis. I'm also willing to bet not a single one has had a violent act committed against them or their loved ones by such a person. It's all cool to be filled with righteous indignation over a perceived injustice, but you'd be singing another song if it happened to you.

I do reach out to people. Occasionally I get bit, sometimes not. OTOH, I don't delude myself into thinking every single child/adult can be cured. Further, I see absolutely no reason to allow a criminal to continue on in a fashion that clearly shows disaster in the near future. This innocent little boy in question has a violent history and was breaking into a home for that beer. What happens if the homeowner catches him and puts up a fight? Can you honestly say you don't think there is a reasonable chance the innocent little boy wouldn't get violent? Can you honestly say you think it is better for that to happen than to send him to prison based on his previous history before he hurts an innocent homeowner while on one of his innocent nights out on the town?

If so, YOU need to check with God for forgiveness, as you are as complicit in the crime as the innocent little boy.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #80 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:19:36 PM »

Lazs, you think I haven't dealt with thugs?

Try growin' up in the ghetto, you let me know who you deal with, k?
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #81 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:21:51 PM »

Hey, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Beretta, 1978.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #82 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:28:35 PM »

Si Muchacho... when you see his name in 10 years, like I said, don't be surprised... and look for no one else to blame but yourself and people like you.

Like I said, you assume I haven't dealt with people like these before. Or I haven't dealt with 'em everyday for 17 years...

But hey, you're a teacher... so I must bow before your extensive knowledge.
-SW

lazs2 · « **Reply #83 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:42:04 PM »

sw... you need to get some years behind you to get some perspective. No offense meant.. just fact. This is not about where you grow up. I grew up in the bay area of california. they didn't have "ghettos" back then.... we created em and brought em with us wherever we went.

Things aren't so different today. the kid in the story and the one in mine were not products of a ghetto. In my case the kid had upper middle class parents who gave him all the essentials except... drugs. they couldn't or would't buy him as many drugs as he wanted/needed. This grave injustice is the root of his problem. He is more than willing to get 5 cents on the dollar on goods gained from stealing from everyone within his reach in order to correct this injustice.

sure... you don't need to put most first or second time offenders into some gladiator academy for 10 years but for a lot of these guys ten years in prison is ten years that they don't give everyone else grief. The myth that they come out as some kind of super criminal is just that. A myth.. they learn a few things but they remain stupid and lazy IF they remain criminals. they just go back mostly. Then they either get better or die. I don't particularly care which except in how it affects me.
lazs

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #84 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:50:18 PM »

My thing is, I've seen far worse from kids like that... and they've been rehabilitated.

Some of 'em I knew... some of 'em were only acqauintances.

Of course, they went to a family member who instilled real values and a couple beat downs for a couple years... not some shoddy government joke of a rehab center.

If you meet those guys.. those "peer" counselers or whatever they call 'em now-a-days... for the most part, they are just a waste of a good desk. The ones that were too dumb to do anything but get a basic 2 year degree in sociology or psychology... those guys are supposed to help these kids that go to juvi or get sent somewhere else... but they don't care, and the kids feel that. And that's why most of 'em revert back to their old ways.

Seen it before... Anyway, time to leave work. Adios.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #85 on:** August 29, 2002, 03:51:01 PM »

I need to clarify something, SW... I am talking about violent crime here, not minor offenses. The person in question has a history of violence and now is caught breaking into homes. You put those two items together and someone is going to get hurt, eventually.

Glad you turned your life around, whatever you did. I myself don't have a spotless life, but violence definitely isn't part of it.

10Bears · « **Reply #86 on:** August 29, 2002, 04:02:43 PM »

Hey Kieran using your logic shouldn’t we be locking up Jena and Barbara Bush for the crimes they are going to commit?... And you know they will.. Look at the crime element of the family they come from. Great granddaddy Prescott got caught doing business with the nazis, grandpa was “out of the loop” selling arms to Osama Bin Laden then using the money to fund right wing death squads in El Salvador. Can’t let empty planes deadhead back, so he let Manual Noreiga and the Medadine cartel ship cocaine back to the states to be sold to African American communities.

I just hope you use the same compassion you show here next time the twins get busted. If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime ain’t that right?

Elfenwolf · « **Reply #87 on:** August 29, 2002, 04:11:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Did anyone else think it was ironically funny that lieing is a "hanging offense" at Elfies house?

Oh, Gee!! You didn't think I was SERIOUS about Superfly e-mailing me describing his day last Friday now, did you? Sheeesh MT, I thought you would see through that story by the third paragraph at least. Sorry I confused you bud.

OTOH I have no doubt Kanth actually believes I was trying to convince everyone Hi Tech uses a sedan chair to get to work. I imagine he read that, pondered it for several days and then came to the conclusion the story wasn't true.

Thrawn · « **Reply #88 on:** August 29, 2002, 04:12:16 PM »

I've commited most of the crimes he was convicted of, when I was a teenager.

I guess my first murder is just around the corner.

You guys have no clue, what so ever, how this individual would have turned out with a different sentence.

midnight Target · « **Reply #89 on:** August 29, 2002, 04:14:21 PM »

C'mon!

Some have admitted to being "like this kid", just not getting caught. I know I had a checkered past and grew out of it luckily. So did many others on this BBS, or so they say. Some even claim to be underage run-away's who did it on their own.

10 years is too long - period. Sure he needs to pay for his crimes. Sure he has problems. But you all know this sentence is rediculous! 2 years would have been appropriate. Even 1 in juvie and 1 in Prison, but 10??? Paleeeez!