Author Topic: [zepps_essays] Propaganda  (Read 1189 times)

Offline Fatty

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« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2002, 08:02:37 AM »
Quote
Back around 1980, when BBSes - the local ASCII equivalents of Usenet - first showed up, extremists in the White Power and Nazi movements were delighted. At last, they had a cheap and - they thought - effective method of getting their message out to the masses. They were convinced that only the ignorance of the sheep prevented Hitler's vision from becoming America's future.

This caused considerable consternation. It was pretty horrific to contemplate that the computer - the cutting edge of humanity's technology and ingenuity, and the new incredible frontier in communication - was being perverted to such ends. More than one person was struck by the juxtaposition of brilliance and vileness.

Many of us quickly realized the best thing to do about the hate mongers was to let them put up their own boards and propagate to their heart's content.


Hrm, a third rate columnist?  A half-assed website that looks thrown together by a 10 year old learning html?  Unfortunately having read this and the last one you posted I doubt he's bright enough to see the irony.

Offline H. Godwineson

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« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2002, 08:14:05 AM »
10Bears,

Hitler was the leader who believed in the Big Lie.  Do you mean to say that you took what he said about being a Catholic during a public speach seriously?!

Do you really mean to compare Republicans and other members of the political right to neo-Nazis?

Would you take it amiss if we of the right compare the members of the left to Stalinists?


Regards, Shuckins

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2002, 08:20:09 AM »
Articles as 10bears shows the true desparation of the left....read on:

Quote
The Left has lost its way and
                    lost its voice
                    Camille Paglia


                    The language of leftism is out of date. It desperately
                    needs reconstruction and revitalisation, if the Left is
                    ever to regain its proper status as a voice of ethical
                    critique of materialistic modern society.

                    As a registered Democrat who voted for the fringe-left
                    Ralph Nader for President in 2000, I am well aware of
                    the decline in prestige and effectiveness of leftist
                    organisations since their high point in the 1960s. The
                    large demonstrations against globalisation two years
                    ago, for example, made scarcely a ripple in the US and
                    have already been forgotten. One problem is that too
                    many leftist periodicals are run by callow cliques whose
                    vaunted populism is a mask for snobbery.

                    Leftist analysis has been slow to adjust to the massive
                    expansion of the service sector after the Second World
                    War. In the US, salaries of skilled manual labourers
                    have long exceeded those of mid-level office staff.
                    Leftists consistently misinterpret mass media and new
                    technology, which they treat with paranoid theories of
                    manipulation and “commodification” coined by writers
                    schooled before the Second World War (before the birth
                    of television).

                    The communications revolution has blurred traditional
                    class lines. But the Left still doggedly invokes
                    paradigms from early industrialisation, applicable today
                    only to the Third World. It finds “oppression” under every
                    rock and reduces contemporary society to rote battles of
                    the “powerful” and the “powerless”.

                    The Left is wilfully blind to the enormous contributions
                    that capitalism has made to democracy and
                    individualism. Over the past two centuries capitalism
                    has raised the standard of living and enhanced the
                    health and life expectancy for untold millions in the West
                    and elsewhere. It has stimulated new ideas and
                    fostered free speech.

                    When they call for the redistribution of wealth, leftists
                    are endorsing an authoritarian system that, wherever it
                    has been tried, has resulted in economic stagnation
                    and a sapping of cultural energy. Such concentration of
                    power in the State creates its own tyrannical master
                    class. Without the profit motive, few are inclined to work
                    for long.
The play of the market, rather than government
                    engineering, is more reliable for long-term job creation.
                    When jobs are varied and plentiful, ethnic and racial
                    tensions diminish.

                    Only a lunatic fringe on the far Left is still calling for
                    revolution, a smashing of the social order, but it must
                    be acknowledged how widespread that idea was in the
                    1960s. Most leftists do believe that, without them, the
                    naive proletariat would wallow for ever in ignorance and
                    slavery. Unless they are volunteering hands-on service
                    in blighted neighbourhoods, however, most leftists are
                    far removed from working-class life. Many are
                    wordsmiths — journalists or academics who run in
                    packs. Leftism has become wordplay — a refuge for
                    bourgeois intellectuals guilty about their comfort and
                    privilege.


                    The crisis of the Left was signalled 20 years ago by
                    academe’s retreat into post-structuralism — an elitist,
                    jargon-filled methodology practised by literati with scant
                    knowledge of history. In the US, liberalism too is
                    confused, alternating between a genteel
                    humanitarianism credulously craving government
                    programmes to an overtly Machiavellian power politics.

                    Because the Left has been programmatically
                    anti-business, it has been unable to reform the
                    business practices that generate prosperity in the West.
                    A strong, articulate Left could have roused public
                    resistance to the Marie Antoinette corporate culture of
                    the past 15 years, which climaxed in recent revelations
                    of monumental fraud.

                    As smaller companies were swallowed up in
                    transnational conglomerates, plant closings produced
                    superficial cost-cutting, rewarded by skyrocketing
                    compensation for top management. Boards of directors
                    went limp, while stockholders were helpless. An
                    honest, respected Left would have been well positioned
                    to render aid when and where it was needed.

                    The most radical task facing contemporary leftism is a
                    purgation and reclamation of its own rhetoric.



Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3284-385779,00.html
« Last Edit: August 30, 2002, 08:22:59 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline lord dolf vader

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« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2002, 09:08:35 AM »
i was raised by a old fasioned republican policman/ww2vet and followed his political lead till i screwed up and joined the navy befor finishing college.I ad to live with the "trash" and then work with the "workers".now i am a confirmed liberal democrat because as bad as the liberals are the conservitives are worse. guys  here who spend their whole day posting on bbs on the company dime while others work thier way to a early grave. and have the audacity to pretend they have it hard. buying austentatious toys to brag about while 30 million people in our own country cant make 14 k a year ( and yea they work).  racist to the core but will deny it all day long ( 2 beers and no black folk around and the n word flys)  you have to be a lyin evil bastard to be a conservive these days sorry its the truth.

Offline 10Bears

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« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2002, 09:14:28 AM »
With the exception of Miko or Shuckins none of you have addressed the points of the article.. You’ve either attacked me for posting it or the author...

For the record Kieran I’ve never called you a nazi. I’ve called some of your thinking leading down the road nazi like. If you supported Slobo you supported a real deal nazi.

Hitler was the leader who believed in the Big Lie. Do you mean to say that you took what he said about being a Catholic during a public speach seriously?!

No of course not but his speeches and writings are all we have to go on. Private conversations with associates don’t count if they were not recorded on tape. Like the article above states and I’ve seen it myself, is a movement by certain quarters of the hard right to separate as far as possible Hitler’s true religious beliefs from Christianity. But when we study his speeches we find numerous references to Catholism. Just like many politicians today, he used religion as a prop to stand behind and to gather the masses.

Do you really mean to compare Republicans and other members of the political right to neo-Nazis?

 Rank and file Republicans of course not, but have you ever seen skinhead rallies KKK rallies, Council for Concerned Citizens, whatshisname the author for the “Turner Diaries” the American Bund, Serbian Unity Congress, and other hate groups all have a cousin, a link in the GOP yes.
Again what the above article points out in that a healthy society groups like this don’t really get much traction. But if something happens like a major war or depression nationalism starts to take hold. It’s their fault, it’s us against them.. we have to do a pre emptive strike now. We must protect our way of life and so on. For nationalism to take root you need an object of hate. Hate is always an easier emotion than acceptance and understanding. It doesn’t really matter who the object of hate is, it could be hate the gays or hate the minorities or hate the Arabs. Just as long as we have the “them” to hate the “us“.. are united.

If you agree with this, than you agree with the article above.

Would you take it amiss if we of the right compare the members of the left to Stalinists?

That wouldn’t be really fair, true liberalism or libertarianism celebrates the individual Stalin hardly had any use for this.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2002, 09:19:44 AM »
Well, I don't bother to read stuff from any author who's best literary talent and strongest argument is making up second grade names for people.

Sorry, just not enough time. I prefer writers that can make a point with facts.... not by calling people names.

Just me I guess. So many articles, so little time.

As to the content of this one.. check Fatty's post again. He pretty much nailed it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2002, 09:38:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Well, I don't bother to read stuff from any author who's best literary talent and strongest argument is making up second grade names for people.

---snip----


Seems like a good match for Anne Coulter.....Anti Anne. Both use the same type of propagandish style and inviction.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2002, 09:45:28 AM »
10Bears: Fascinating truly... Miko tells us that only Hitler’s private un-recorded conversations show the real Hitler.
 :mad:
 Where does that come from? Who gives you the right to put crap into my mouth? Did I ever mentioned his private un-recorded conversations? I thought any person who is interested in Hitler and not an ignorant dolt could go to Amazon, punch in his name and get Hitler's TableTalk - 800 pages hardcover of his nightly conversations with close friends and secretaries recoded carefully by two stenographers - it is commonly known that practically every word of his was recorded and those records must be somewhere, right?. I was looking for them for a while (in English) and in October 2000 that one finally came out.

 Also, "Mein Kampf" while not private is clearly not directed towards general public but towards his party comrades as a action manual. Hitler gives advice that he expect to really work - so there is a minimum of propaganda there. If german people in 30s really read the "most published" book that everyone owned, they would have seen what he realy thinks of them and what his speeches are worth - he is making absolutely no secret there.

 But no, you could not be bothered to look or ask me where did I get my info - you just assumed I make stuff up.

 By the way - I do oppose Iraqi invason and do find a lot of the analogies with european history compelling. While I do not believe Bush and republicans evil, I consider them misguided.
 Another by the way - I do not make a claim that Hitler was or was not an atheist - just that the autor has no clue about Hitler because he is using the source that Hitler himself admitted as mostly lies and propaganda.

 As for the author - he is obviously an anti-cristian socialist and any one with half a brain will see it from this writing - he attempts to disguise it but very thinly:
 Do not believe that Hussein is republican because his guard is called Republican Guard - everything republican is good and pure and never makes war and Hussein is Evil! He cannot be a republican! (By the way, he is still preferable to our republicans which are really nazis - let's keep Hussein and get rid of Bush instead!)
 Do not believe that Hitler was a socialist just because his party was called Socialist and his economic policies were pure socialist! We all know that socialists are good and warm and cuddly and Hitler was Evil! He could not have been a socialist!
 What, Hitler said he was a christian? Sure, we believe him. We all know that christians are mean and evil and all xenocidal maniacs! Of course Hiter was a christian!
 And by the way, our republicans are christian right and must be nazis themselves.


 I bet that if find out which "right wing bozo wrote a book saying this, based on nothing more than the fact that the name of Hitler's party was "The National SOCIALIST Party". ", I will find that the same book that the bozo examined his socialist economic policies, not just the party label as a basis for his opinion.

 While I am an atheist and libertarian, this kind of attempt to slander catholicism, bash christianity, equate republicans with nazis and whitewash socialism is disgusting to me!

 miko
« Last Edit: August 30, 2002, 11:02:54 AM by miko2d »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2002, 10:11:43 AM »
I don't read Coulter either.

There's too many good, intelligent, skillful journalists out there to bother with second-rate hacks.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Elfenwolf

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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2002, 10:28:36 AM »
BAH!! One more left vs. right argument that will go nowhere nor convince anyone to change their point of view. Many have you have gone out of your way to call me names this week and- Well, I don't need this. I have a full weekend lined up- This afternoon I'm cruising to Yosemite to scale El Capitan, Saturday I'm going skydiving and Sunday I'm going scuba diving with great white sharks. I'll see ya Monday and does anybody have some chum I can borrow?

Offline john9001

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« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2002, 10:43:44 AM »
Elfenwolf...be carefull

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2002, 03:14:33 PM »
Towd do you really believe stereotypes like that?  How sad.

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2002, 03:31:48 PM »
Elfen- just make sure you use your skydiving gear for rock climbing, your scuba diving gear for skydiving and your rock climbing gear for swimming with the Great Whites.
-SW

Offline wulfie

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« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2002, 05:31:56 PM »
10Bears:

Answer 2 questions for me.

1. (YES or NO) Is Iraq in direct violation of the cease fire that they signed before the U.N. that was the cause for cessation of hostilities vs. Iraq?

2. In your opinion, why does Iraq refuse to allow U.N. (NOTE: U.N., as opposed to U.S.) WMD inspection teams into Iraq? Keep in mind that Iraq's failure to allow such inspection teams into Iraq is a major cause for the continuing import/export/trade restrictions levied against Iraq by the U.N.

Mike/wulfie

Offline lord dolf vader

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« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2002, 06:58:18 PM »
sorry but if alot of people are stereotypical ( and i believe they are) the  use a stereotype is appropriate.

the left and right are getting further apart. we all know the reasons. i wont rant . but i was born into the conservative side and lived it till i was 23. then i opted out, to many lies and half truths and screwing people for fun .  just not my cup of tea.