Author Topic: [zepps_essays] Propaganda  (Read 1199 times)

Offline 10Bears

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[zepps_essays] Propaganda
« on: August 29, 2002, 09:07:03 PM »
Propaganda
Hitler would have known the American right

by Bryan Zepp Jamieson
8/30/02
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com/VRWC/propaganda.htm

 Back around 1980, when BBSes - the local ASCII equivalents of Usenet -
first showed up, extremists in the White Power and Nazi movements were
delighted.  At last, they had a cheap and - they thought - effective
method of getting their message out to the masses.  They were convinced
that only the ignorance of the sheep prevented Hitler's vision from
becoming America's future.

 This caused considerable consternation.  It was pretty horrific to
contemplate that the computer - the cutting edge of humanity's
technology and ingenuity, and the new incredible frontier in
communication - was being perverted to such ends.  More than one person
was struck by the juxtaposition of brilliance and vileness.

 Many of us quickly realized the best thing to do about the hate mongers
was to let them put up their own boards and propagate to their heart's
content.

 Part of it was simply the fact that in a healthy and stable culture,
hate has limited appeal.  It's one thing to say that most people
stereotype and have prejudicial thoughts, but for most, it's an
indulgence, a weakness, and doesn't translate into the active antipathy
needed to become a full-blown hater.  And those weak enough to fall into
such a trap are often too weak to act on it.

 In a healthy society, the vast majority of people are better than what
the haters have to offer, and the vileness of the haters, more than
anything else, limits them.  Most people don't need warnings on their
cigarette packages to know that racial and religious hatred are wrong.
And the obvious dangers of preempting the rights of the haters to
present their views outweighed the minor appeal they had among
disaffected teens.

 Only in a sick society are they a real danger.  Hitler wouldn't have
been able to seize power had Germany not been broke and broken by the
Treaty of Versailles and the collapse of the mark.  A decent
unemployment rate, and Hitler would have been nothing more than a minor
footnote in German history, a nasty crackpot who used to hang around the
beer halls and rant about Jews and communists.

 A second reason to not interfere with the rights of the haters to
express themselves was that it put them out in the light of day, were we
could see what they were up to.

 In a minor incident the other day, it paid off.  Someone managed to get
Target Stores to carry a line of clothing that had the innocent logo,
"88".  However, the number appears quite frequently on neo-nazi and
white supremacist websites, where it means "eighth letter of the
alphabet twice", or "HH", which is shorthand for "Heil Hitler".  The far
right revels in such silliness, and such website have that, and other
symbols like "14" (short for "Fourteen words", those words being "We
must secure the existence of our people and a future for white
children"), "RAHOWA" (Racial Holy War) and "ZOG" - Zionist Occupied
Government.

 Well, I told you it was silly.  Neo-Nazis aren't noted for their
brights.  Frankly, I'm surprised that any of them can count to 14.

 But those websites are public, mostly, and someone noticed the "88" and
realized what it meant.  And a minor propaganda coup was thus averted.

 It demonstrates another reason to keep the Nazis and their writings in
public view.  There's a nest of neo-propaganda out there, most of it
from the Republican and Christian right, that reinvents Hitler for their
own purposes.  We've gotten used to use Hitler's own words to disprove
lies told about liberals and seculars and their relation to Adolf
Hitler.  The American right has gotten so poisonous that it no longer
seems incongruous to use Hitler as a measuring stick by which we compare
their honesty.

 For example, a claim that gained currency during the nineties was that
Hitler was an atheist.  A friend sent me a collection of quotes from
Hitler invoking his deity in a variety of ways, and of course, a glance
at any of his speeches will demonstrate that he was as capable of
calling on God to bless his endeavors as any American president.
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com/Other_Voices/Quotes_from_the_right.htm

 I've only had to use that list of quotes on Usenet once.  Being able to
flourish a line like, "I am now as before a Catholic and will always
remain so" tends to put a quick quietus to assertions that Hitler killed
millions of people because he had no moral guidance from above.  I'm
sure the vast majority of Christians would question Hitler's particular
interpretation; nonetheless, he was a Christian in his own mind.

 Another fabrication about Hitler that got far more currency was that
Hitler was a socialist.  Some right wing bozo wrote a book saying this,
based on nothing more than the fact that the name of Hitler's party was
"The National SOCIALIST Party".  Going by this logic, Saddam Hussein is
a Republican because his personal army is called the Republican Guard.

 Talk radio picked up this silliness, and as a result, people who don't
know what Hitler's views were or what socialist is will assure you, with
the placidity of those who utterly rely on their sources, that Hitler
was a socialist.

 Of course, right wingers think that socialists, communists, leftists
and liberals are all pretty much the same thing, so it only induces a
moderate amount of strain on their brains to conclude that Hitler was a
socialist, a communist, a leftist, and a liberal.

 Having access to Hitler's thoughts on such is a help.  These excerpts
come from a three hour speech:


 "The main plank in the National Socialist programme is to abolish the
liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of
humanity and to substitute therefore the folk community, rooted in the
soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood. A very simple
statement; but it involves a principle that has tremendous
consequences."
 [...]
 "I mean here that if Europe does not awaken to the danger of the
Bolshevic infection, then I fear that international commerce will not
increase but decrease, despite all the good intentions of individual
statesmen. For this commerce is based not only on the undisturbed and
guaranteed stability of production in one individual nation but also on
the production of all the nations together. One of the first things
which is clear in this matter is that every Bolshevic disturbance must
necessarily lead to a more or less permanent destruction of orderly
production. Therefore my opinion about the future of Europe is, I am
sorry to say, not so optimistic as Mr. Eden's. I am the responsible
leader of the German people and must safeguard its interests in this
world as well as I can. And therefore I am bound to judge things
objectively as I see them."

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/hitler1.htmON NATIONAL SOCIALISM
AND WORLD RELATIONS

SPEECH DELIVERED IN THE GERMAN REICHSTAG ON JANUARY 30TH 1937

Offline 10Bears

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[zepps_essays] Propaganda
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2002, 09:08:16 PM »
Obviously, Hitler didn't like Socialists very much.  It's one thing to
tell people that the history books show that once he got the Nuremberg
Laws passed, his first targets were Jews, Communists, Socialists and
Liberals (as with American right wingers, those groups were all one in
his mind), quite another to show what the man was saying as he targeted
these groups that American right wingers now try to pretend he
represented.

 Now, of course, the American right has a new line of propaganda going:
Saddam Hussein is a threat to the world who must be stopped, and people
who don't agree are in the position that Neville Chamberlain was at
Munich, and there must be no room for appeasement of tyrants.

 Of course, there's a few changes between the position that Neville
Chamberlain was in, and the one America is in.  Chamberlain did not have
the power to reduce Germany to a radioactive ruin in 15 minutes, and
indeed had reason to believe that an attack on Germany would be a
military disaster.  America isn't in that position.

 But there is a similarity between the propaganda we're hearing from the
American right and the administration today, and that which was heard in
the dark days before the beginning of World War II.

 From that same Hitler speech:

 ...(1) We look on Bolshevism as a world peril for which there must be
no toleration.

 (2) We use every means in our power to keep this peril away from our
people.

 (3) And we are trying to make the German people immune to this peril as
far as possible.

 ...Hence, just as I have been forced by economic circumstances to
depend on our own resources principally for the maintenance of my
people, so also I have been forced in the political sphere. And we
ourselves are not to blame for that.

 ...(5) It is impossible to make one nation or another responsible for
armaments or for limitation of armaments, but it is necessary to see
this problem as it really is.

 (6) It is impossible to maintain peace among the nations so long as an
international irresponsible clique can continue their agitation
unchecked.

 We're not responsible.  There is an evil power pushing on us, making us
act preemptively to defend ourselves.  Germany was just the innocent
victim of evil forces.  Just like Dick Cheney is today.

 The Bolsheviks made us do it.

 The Czechs made us do it.

 The Poles made us do it.

 Saddam made us do it.

 Propaganda never changes, but history is good for pointing out
propaganda when it occurs.  Fortunately, the neo-Nazis have made it easy
to look for one's own self.

 There was one final Hitler quote, this one from the morning of
September 1st, 1939.

 "Polish regular officers fired on our territory.  Since 5:45 a.m. we
have been returning fire."

 It's not our fault.  The other guy started it.

 Hitler would recognize the American right.  He would recognize this
administration.  And he would recognize the rhetoric used by the two.

 And he would approve.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Woo Hoo Stevereno..

Offline miko2d

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[zepps_essays] Propaganda
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2002, 09:56:43 PM »
I made a thorough study of Hitler - not actually complete.

 One thing we should remember about him that Jamieson is completely oblivious about, is that very little of what Hitler said in public speeches can be used as an indication of his views - or his intellect for that matter.

 In his private conversations with close associates and theoretical writings he admits and instructs that the masses are dumb and must be lied to and told what is likely to produce the desired effect.

 His writings on propaganda directed towards the masses are very clear, intelligent and informative unlike the speaches themselves.
 Speaches do sound like idiot's rumblings when examined by Ph.Ds, but they were not directed towards Ph.D. and they had great effect on their intended audience - including unducing orgasm in women.

 If it was to Hitler's advantage to claim catholicism and other stuff, he would do so.

 miko

Offline john9001

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[zepps_essays] Propaganda
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2002, 10:07:22 PM »
10bears, i look forward to the day we kick hawaii out of the union

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2002, 10:27:02 PM »
10bears, you are so ignorant on so many points you have tried to make that it is impossible to argue with you.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2002, 10:39:17 PM »
Let me add 10bears:

If you believe the US is like Nazi Germany, it should be your duty to leave at once and begain an interational resistance to the US government from abroad.

You need to be true to your ideals and revolt against our evil governement. How can you sit idely by as your fellow countrymen travel down the path of Nazism? You should organise all the millions of other Americans that undoubtably stand where you do.

You are a true visionary. You need to publically anounce your fight against the US government and it's Nazi direction.

10bears you need to be strong for the rest of us. Please tell us all where we can meet and form a strong resistance. Lead us 10bears, we need a strong man like you.

Offline 10Bears

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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2002, 11:18:17 PM »
If you believe the US is like Nazi Germany,

LOL Nuke.. you funny guy.

By all means attack me Nuke.. Lets not agree or disagree with the points in the article.. I just posted it.. Jepp Jamison wrote it.. I think he's a good writer.

Offline Toad

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[zepps_essays] Propaganda
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2002, 11:28:41 PM »
Quote
Zepp Jaimeson:

"The far right revels in such silliness, and such website have that, and other symbols like "14" (short for "Fourteen words", those words being "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children"), "RAHOWA" (Racial Holy War) and "ZOG" - Zionist Occupied Government."
[/b]
Would that be the same Zepp Jaimeson that said:

Quote
Zepp Jaimeson:

"Putsch's first budget is out, and if you need any evidence that Putsch and his junta are a bunch of mean, greedy, short-sighted, stupid bastards, the proof is all there in black and white."
[/b]

Now who is it that "revels in such silliness" again?


Too funny.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2002, 12:02:06 AM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline 10Bears

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[zepps_essays] Propaganda
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2002, 01:20:07 AM »
Fascinating truly... Miko tells us that only Hitler’s private un-recorded conversations show the real Hitler.
John can’t wait for the fiftieth state to be chucked outta the union.
Nuke doesn’t disagree with the article.. He’s mad at me for posting it.
Toad unsurprisingly, uses an out of context quote from another of Zepp’s essays as proof that this article must be somehow wrong. Neither that article or this one is BTW.

I got a question for ya. Back when you were skinning your heads, what was it about Slayer’s music that you liked? I could never get into that band.. Sounded like a bunch of noise to me.

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2002, 01:42:36 AM »
Yep it's propaganda all right.  Looney anti-American weirdo propaganda.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2002, 01:43:26 AM »
the only time my head was "skinned" was in marine corp boot camp,   paris island 62

semper fi
44MAG

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2002, 07:22:08 AM »
All I have to say is that only two people on this BBS have ever called me a nazi...

...and you're one of them, 10Bears, and more than once.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2002, 07:28:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears

Toad unsurprisingly, uses an out of context quote from another of Zepp’s essays as proof that this article must be somehow wrong.


Ah.. no, that's not it.

I just think it's pretty funny that the writer you so admire uses exactly the same writing tactics as those he vilifies. Oh, and btw, I could have snipped a quote like that from any one of 15 articles a google search turned up. It seems to be a standard tactic for him.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2002, 07:30:02 AM »
Kieran... roger that. Ironic, eh? Considering his "enlightened" position in the political spectrum?  :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2002, 07:30:11 AM »
Quote
Nuke doesn’t disagree with the article.. He’s mad at me for posting it.


10bears I only read your second post, I thought you wrote it and were posting your views. It might be helpful to list an author next time.


Also, where in my post did I say I was mad?