Author Topic: Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?  (Read 646 times)

Offline Widewing

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« on: September 03, 2002, 07:49:29 AM »
I was surprised to learn that the #1 rated bomber pilot has never flown a single bomber sortie, never dropped a single bomb. He has attained his stature via field captures alone. I think that it's time to set up a seperate scoring category for field captures, exclusive of bomber or vehicle score. Indeed, this may be the ultimate "gaming the game" situation. Likewise, at least one of the leading scorers has accumulated the majority of their kills by "vulching" (I've made a point of observing this). Since no major air force in WWII counted kills of aircraft on the ground in the "official" total, why does HTC do so? Perhaps they should be counted as fractional kills, assuming that such a thing is possible in terms of programming. Maybe no kill should be awarded, just the perk points. Frankly, if you can't kill 'em in the air, or won't fly a bomber, you should not be ranked at or near the top in either category. Maybe I'm mistakenly expecting a WWII sim to reflect the real world just a bit, rather than an Nintendo arcade game.....

If these changes were employed, we would see some of the high ranking pilot's gamey scores go straight into the toilet, where, in my opinion, they belong.  :D

Quietly awaiting the howls of indignation by the "gamers".... ;)

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Innominate

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2002, 07:56:38 AM »
Field Captures in vehicles dont seem to count for anything.

One of the things that kind of bugs me is kill/death ratio.  You can guarentee a high kill ratio by flying the lowest eny planes, such as the la7, niki, p51, etc.  Someone who can maintain a 1 to 1 kill ratio flying a 202, is going to be a much better pilot than a pilot who can maintain the same kill ratio in an la7.  I'd like to see a stat added below k/d ratio which would take the planes you fly into account.  A simple way  would be to just create a ratio of perks earned / perks given (Dropping the end of sortie multipliers)  So the people who can maintain good kill ratios, in lesser aircraft, are rewarded.  It would also be nice to see the number of damage points earned also be based on your plane.  Why not have the ENY of your plane affect scoring as well as perks earned?

Anyways that that horse has been beaten a bit, The problem with removing scoring for vulching is that it will just have people hanging out 15k over a field waiting for an easy kill.  Capturing a base would be nearly impossible without vulchers, except in milkruns.  That or, it would simply be circumvented by killing people the moment they leave the ground.   Fractional kills for killing planes on the ground really might be good though.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2002, 08:03:04 AM by Innominate »

Offline ET

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2002, 08:43:40 AM »
I agree.would like to see medium and heavy bombers separate from light bombers and C47s. Guys using bombsites would be able to see how their doing.

Offline whels

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2002, 09:20:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Innominate
Field Captures in vehicles dont seem to count for anything.

One of the things that kind of bugs me is kill/death ratio.  You can guarentee a high kill ratio by flying the lowest eny planes, such as the la7, niki, p51, etc.  Someone who can maintain a 1 to 1 kill ratio flying a 202, is going to be a much better pilot than a pilot who can maintain the same kill ratio in an la7.  I'd like to see a stat added below k/d ratio which would take the planes you fly into account.  A simple way  would be to just create a ratio of perks earned / perks given (Dropping the end of sortie multipliers)  So the people who can maintain good kill ratios, in lesser aircraft, are rewarded.  It would also be nice to see the number of damage points earned also be based on your plane.  Why not have the ENY of your plane affect scoring as well as perks earned?

Anyways that that horse has been beaten a bit, The problem with removing scoring for vulching is that it will just have people hanging out 15k over a field waiting for an easy kill.  Capturing a base would be nearly impossible without vulchers, except in milkruns.  That or, it would simply be circumvented by killing people the moment they leave the ground.   Fractional kills for killing planes on the ground really might be good though.


mmm if u got a 1 to 1 K/D in La7,  then ur not flying very well.

at 1 time this tour i had a 37 to 1 K/D in La7 with 2 of 3 deaths to Ack. its lower now, couple augers and 2 or 3 purpose augers(had to leave game quick) has brought it down. but a competent pilot should be able to hold a 10+K/D easy in La7. but most barely hold a 2 to 1. only thing that makes high K/D in La7 hard is everyone wants to jump on u 1st :)


whels

Offline Widewing

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2002, 09:36:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Innominate
Field Captures in vehicles dont seem to count for anything.

One of the things that kind of bugs me is kill/death ratio.  You can guarentee a high kill ratio by flying the lowest eny planes, such as the la7, niki, p51, etc.  Someone who can maintain a 1 to 1 kill ratio flying a 202, is going to be a much better pilot than a pilot who can maintain the same kill ratio in an la7.  I'd like to see a stat added below k/d ratio which would take the planes you fly into account.  A simple way  would be to just create a ratio of perks earned / perks given (Dropping the end of sortie multipliers)  So the people who can maintain good kill ratios, in lesser aircraft, are rewarded.  It would also be nice to see the number of damage points earned also be based on your plane.  Why not have the ENY of your plane affect scoring as well as perks earned?

Anyways that that horse has been beaten a bit, The problem with removing scoring for vulching is that it will just have people hanging out 15k over a field waiting for an easy kill.  Capturing a base would be nearly impossible without vulchers, except in milkruns.  That or, it would simply be circumvented by killing people the moment they leave the ground.   Fractional kills for killing planes on the ground really might be good though.


I'm not advocating eliminating vulching, just limiting the effect it has upon scoring. Besides, any knucklehead who respawns 12 times deserves what he gets. ;) I just find it unfortunate that people generate a high rank with a minimum of air to air kills. Now, I understand that some people have no regard for score. But, they might if it actually meant something.

As far as flying high ENY aircraft, I gained the vast majority of my kills flying the FM-2/F4F-4 and SBD. I’ll use a Dora or P-51 (both B and D) should circumstances require altitude and speed. Likewise, I’ll grab a C-Hog once in a while, or a Niki should the situation require (needing cannons for popping PTs or GVs). I also enjoy the Ki-61, Yaks and C.205. More than ever before, I spent a lot of time in bombers and GVs. Yet, I had just 3 field captures, largely because I find flying C-47s and driving M3s rather dull. There’s another “gamey” aspect that I dislike, proximity kills. I picked up several while defending CVs. I’d get a few snapshot pings on an attacker, but not enough to kill him. However, the AI ack would finish the job and I’d get the kill anyway. I was scolded by some guy who was flying around a CV collecting proxies. He was very upset that I had taken off, ‘cause I was stealing his kills by actually flying out a few miles and shooting down the enemy.. Go figure.

I agree, scoring should be based upon difficulty as well as total numbers. Certainly, a guy getting his kills in a C.202 or F4F-4 should receive a better score than a guy getting a similar number of kills in a Lavochkin or Dora or the like thereof.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Saintaw

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2002, 09:38:08 AM »
Quote
(had to leave game quick)


We now know that Whels is playing at the Office :D baaad baaad baaad!

Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline gofaster

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2002, 10:07:48 AM »
I've met whels in Lakeland.  He ain't playing at the office.

So far this term, the only times I've been popped in an LA-7 was when I was bounced by multiple bandits.  I usually fly whatever shot me down last (except the N1K2 - I ain't that big a dweeb), but I'll use the LA-7 for base defense and will engage multiple counters and am heavily outnumbered.  One example: last night I was patrolling the air corridor between two bases to intercept a massive raid.  I was climbing up to a N1K2 when a higher N1k2 bounced me from behind.  He didn't kill me, but I did have to break off my attack with a smoking engine, no rudder, no right elevator, and no flaps.  I then dove out and made a smoking 1-way run over the enemy launch point, trailing a P-51 and both N1K2s.  A Spitfire joined our parade somewhere along the way.  I zoomed over the field but missed my attack on a 109 that was upping (no rudder and missing an elevator makes gunnery tricky).  As I circled around for another run, either the airfield flak or one of the pursuing aircraft got me.  At any rate, I counted it as a moral victory because I managed to tie up 4 aircraft and spoil their raid.

If you're banging 10 kills a run, then you're obviously catching a lot of your targets when they're preoccupied with another plane.  Either you have a sucker for a wingman or you're fishing in the bait ball! :)

Cakes ^Skull^
« Last Edit: September 03, 2002, 10:10:52 AM by gofaster »

Offline A4c7i9d

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Personally
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2002, 05:41:19 PM »
I would be for the removal of the score system altogether :-)
Any system they put is is going to be exploited there is no way around it.  So take it out and let people track their stats for personal enjoyment if thats what they want.  Maybe people would start playing the game instead of playing the score system then.

Offline SirLoin

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2002, 05:45:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by whels


mmm if u got a 1 to 1 K/D in La7,  then ur not flying very well.

at 1 time this tour i had a 37 to 1 K/D in La7 with 2 of 3 deaths to Ack. its lower now, couple augers and 2 or 3 purpose augers(had to leave game quick) has brought it down. but a competent pilot should be able to hold a 10+K/D easy in La7. but most barely hold a 2 to 1. only thing that makes high K/D in La7 hard is everyone wants to jump on u 1st :)


whels


Whels..Who cares!...We are talking about fixing the scoring for bombers.
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline whels

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2002, 06:36:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin


Whels..Who cares!...We are talking about fixing the scoring for bombers.


ook , i have no problem scoring in Buffs even with the new bombsite. :)


whels

Offline CAV

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2002, 06:43:29 PM »
On side note....


Quote
Since no major air force in WWII counted kills of aircraft on the ground in the "official" total, why does HTC do so?


I think if you look,,,, The U.S. did late in war.

CAV
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG301

Offline ALF

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2002, 07:09:48 PM »
Yea, the scoring system is not perfect.  No matter how you change it there will be better ways to get ranked higher than other ways.  I think there is room for tweaking (more impact on landing kills even though now its a huge factor), but the ranking system does tend to show general ability, so long as you understand it is a manipulatable system, that very often penalizes those who help their country the most (emergency base defenders who die 10-1 but save the base), and rewards those who risk the least (spawn point campers anyone)


BTW, I love the idea that goon drivers get high bomber ranking...its a boring and dificult job...WTG GOONERS!

Offline wulfie

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2002, 07:13:34 PM »
A new stat: length of time between sortie beginning and death for the unit just killed.

'spawn point campers' and those who are masters of the 'fighter sweep vs. an enemy airfield with no active AAA and 10 to 1 friendly odds in area' may want this new stat to not exist.

OR

Revamp the whole scoring system and make it like this:

Record air to air kills.
Record air to ground kills.
Record ground to ground kills.
Record ground to air kills.
Record # lbs. of HE delivered vs. enemy ground structures.

When you die or are captured...all values set to ZERO.

Highest streak at the end of a TOD wins per category.

Mike/wulfie

Offline Raubvogel

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2002, 07:30:45 PM »
Here's a suggestion: Get a freakin' life.

Offline Turbot

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Is it time to revise some aspects of scoring?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2002, 11:35:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ET
I agree.would like to see medium and heavy bombers separate from light bombers and C47s. Guys using bombsites would be able to see how their doing.


You already can, there are lots of ranked stats - though they might not earn you a bumber sticker, you can indeed see how you are doing.

NOW if someone would have a more sortable webpage for the scoring this would be interesting.  Some guy might get off on knowing he captured more fields than anyone else - another that he scored more ground target kills - just make a webpage that enables sorting of the data.