Author Topic: so long, Constitution... (Read 1319 times)

Tumor · « **Reply #30 on:** September 11, 2002, 07:10:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron

OK, since you seem so willing to sacrifice 150,000 American a year let me ask you what sacrifice you have made to defend your rights? Furthermore, it would seem that since your so willing to die for the perceived loss of rights what are you in fact willing to do to preserve them?

Most likely "Let someone else take care of it".

Kieran · « **Reply #31 on:** September 11, 2002, 07:17:09 PM »

Quote

all to save an insignficant few.

God forbid your loved ones should be categorized as "insignificant".

Staga · « **Reply #32 on:** September 11, 2002, 07:31:34 PM »

"The only good bureaucrat is one with a pistol at his head. Put it in his hand and it's good-by to the Bill of Rights."

-H.L Mencken
----------------------------------------------------
"The main political problem is how to prevent the police power from becoming tyrannical. This is the meaning of all the struggles for liberty."

- Ludwig von Mises

Fact is U.S government is limiting the rights of the people in U.S.
I don't know if its good or bad but usually it's been bad for the "Average Joe" in another countries.
When a criminal has decided to make a crime it's naive to think laws would stop him.

10Bears · « **Reply #33 on:** September 11, 2002, 07:31:41 PM »

we're putting the blame on the wrong person methinks. In regards to Iran, the UN stipulated in 1991 that arms inspectors will be in Iran to verify that weapons of mass destruction aren't available, being made, or being bought. So, where are the arms inspectors the UN placed in Iran? They sure aren't in Iran

Hajo you said Iran 4 times

... don’t you mean Iraq? be that as it may Iran is also seeking WMD. speeking of WMD, why aren't we going after N. Korea? their program is much more advanced.

So for a number of years, a man who is guilty of gassing his own people, has been...

Back in 1985 the Reagan administration sold Saddam the materials to make the gas. In fact during the Iran/Iraq war, the U.S. looked the other way when gas was being used on the Iranians.

I also remember in History a gentlman, a well meaning gentleman by the way decided along with his political superiors to give part of a country away, by the way not his country, to appease a certain dictator.

Using the German analogy really doesn’t work either, for one thing Hitler had the means to take over all of Europe I seriously doubt Saddam could do the same with the middle east. The U.S on the other hand, has the means to take over all of the middle east along with Israel for control of the oil reserves.. Isn’t what all this is really about?

So....does the world let Hussein continue until he decides to nuke, gas or murder more people and become a larger threat to mankind? Or does the US, Great Britain......appears also France is going to enter along side the US and Great Britain, and from what I've read recently that Spain is also leaning that way, dispose of this threat?

On the other hand, you could say the same thing about China or N. Korea or a number of other countries. Containment has worked for the past 50 years so why wouldn’t it work here?.. I’ve got an idea this is all about the oil.

Nelson Mandella has chimed in and said " The US is the biggest threat to World Peace." I wonder what Nelson has for intelligence gathering equipment seeing as how he is no longer of any consequence as an elected official

Interesting smear on Nelson Mandella. His words carry weight. He has more honor and integrity in his little finger than all the chicken hawks who never served in combat put together.

War is ignorant.......it's a waste of many things. But what is more ignorant, is hoping that the threat will go away.....and finding out the threat is in your backyard, and many people have died or been injured because of a lack of action of some nature. Hopefully it's not war
Fine, but what if we go in there kill thousands of Iraqi citizens and don’t find any WMD?... Do we just say well we’re sorry?

It doesn’t matter, we’re building up for an attack like crazy. Already there’s something like 75,000 troops in theater. It doesn’t matter what Congress, the U.N. or the world think.

Forget all the nonsense propaganda Hajo, we going in for that oil.. I’m cool with that.. no need to lie about it.

As far as loosing our Constitutional or Bill of Rights, Global Corporations have no need for any of that.. So be a good consumer and consume.

Tumor · « **Reply #34 on:** September 11, 2002, 07:37:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 10Bears

Fine, but what if we go in there kill thousands of Iraqi citizens and don’t find any WMD?... Do we just say well we’re sorry?

You can't possibly be so insanely stupid as to present this as a literal statement... can you?

Manedew · « **Reply #35 on:** September 11, 2002, 08:16:04 PM »

Right on Oedipus

For you uneducated types try reading two books.
-1984
-Brave New World

1984 - a path of bad intentions ... if these intentions are bad will be something like 1984 crossed with 1930's Italy.

-Brave New World -path of good intentions (which i somehow doubt) will lead to something like this horrible vision in the name of "safety & stabilty"

Vote for ANYTHING but democrat or republican next time around ....

if things don't change ...
anyone gotta job for me in Canada?

P.S.
Oh btw I agree .. have the balls to say the risk is worth freedom ... I'd rather have risk 50 WTC or OK City bombing than live in Facism And yes it'd be every amreican who takes the risk ...I plan to be NYC next newyears ... big target for a terrorist right? not gonna stop me from going.

Got anyone you don't like? see that link up above? Hope noone hate's you ... cause now you don't even have the right to counsel.

And yes i've had cop's stomp on my right's before (just got the bs charges droped ; proably should have sued thier tulips off when i had the chance)... too bad if they did the same thing now it'd be leagal.

It doesn't bother you that our forefather's DIED for these things? They died for them for thier children. I can't fight US goverment only WE can. DO NOT VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS OR DEOMCRATS they are evil. EVIL! it's the Constitution people!!!

I'll proably be in US for another election... if things arn't changed ... anyone got a job for me in Canada?

BRAIN DRAIN! talk to today's college students not many want to stay. Because they can't do it alone .. WE must do it THEY can't. But if this is what the US wants.

Kieran · « **Reply #36 on:** September 11, 2002, 08:31:05 PM »

Unbelievable.

Manedew · « **Reply #37 on:** September 11, 2002, 09:01:30 PM »

oh had to add.. did noone see the Irony of giveing up the rights Patriots fought and died for in somethign called the
"Patriot act"

10Bears · « **Reply #38 on:** September 11, 2002, 09:03:00 PM »

You can't possibly be so insanely stupid as to present this as a literal statement... can you?

Tumor, you can't be so insanely stupid as to believe this is any thing other than control of oil.

Humor me, answer my stupid question, what if they don't find any weapons of mass destruction?... What will they say?

1. 1 billion Muslims will thank George Bush and say what a bad bad man that Saddam Hussane was.. they won't rise up and attack every American Embassy in the world.
2. Fundemental Islamics won't bother to try and take over leadership positions in Iraq.
3. Fundemental Islamics won't try and take over leadership positions in Saudi Arabia.
4. India won't decide to do a preempitive strike on Pakistain seeing as how the United States lead the way.
5. The U.N will still be the body of International Law.
6. the Patriot Act will be sunshined.

AKIron · « **Reply #39 on:** September 11, 2002, 09:03:47 PM »

A lot of talk about lost freedoms. Most of it in very general terms without specifics or real effect. Security vs Freedom has always been a compomise. When the threat is greater you compromise more. Military people understand this. When a country goes to war we all become more like soldiers.

When the threat is gone demand whatever rights you feel you've lost back. Die for them then if you must.

Kieran · « **Reply #40 on:** September 11, 2002, 09:15:02 PM »

Problem is, 10bears, you have so much a hard-on for Cheney you see everything in terms of oil.

10Bears · « **Reply #41 on:** September 11, 2002, 09:29:30 PM »

Oh funny you should bring up Chaney Kieran, while I got you here, maybe you can answer me this: If Saddam is such an evil guy, why is it that Chaney did 24 MILLION in business with him AFTER the sanctions were in place?

Dinger · « **Reply #42 on:** September 11, 2002, 09:43:46 PM »

AKIRon: Ben Franklin. This ain't a police state.
Oil: I dunno if I'd be that reductionist, but Kuwait was created to prevent Iraq from having so much oil. At the time of the Gulf War, Iraq and Kuwait each had 40% of the world's oil reserves. 40% of the world's oil is a darn good reason to go to war, especially if we can put in power a friendly government less draconian than Saudi Arabia. Put in new government, build a big-ass airbase, support them for twenty years until we find something better. Now that's realpolitik, baby.

Frankly, I'd rather see the US get ruined then abandon the principles it claims it stands for. In that way, we'd be able to face humanity and say we were better. We shouldn't shuck our rights and liberties like a prom dress, and hell yeah, I'll do what it takes to defend them. Unfortunately, if I said any more, I'd be subject to indefinite detainment.

Toad · « **Reply #43 on:** September 11, 2002, 09:49:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 10Bears
Oh funny you should bring up Chaney Kieran, while I got you here, maybe you can answer me this: If Saddam is such an evil guy, why is it that Chaney did 24 MILLION in business with him AFTER the sanctions were in place?

"Gore and Lieberman could have made hay about how the wannabe GOP veep had been in cahoots with Saddam. Such explosive revelations may well have swayed voters and boosted Gore's chances in what was shaping up to be a close electoral contest.

The Democratic standard-bearers dropped the ball in part because Halliburton's conduct was generally in accordance with the foreign policy of the Clinton administration.[/u] Cheney is certainly not the only Washington mover and shaker to have been affiliated with a company trading in Iraq.

Former CIA Director John Deutsch, who served in a Democratic administration, is a member of the board of directors of Schlumberger, the second-largest U.S. oil-services company, which
also does business through subsidiaries in Iraq."

Yeah, it was really, really different before. We just can't remember when "before" was, because it's so far back none of us were born yet.

Or something.

Kieran · « **Reply #44 on:** September 11, 2002, 09:54:51 PM »

I don't think I could break it down simple enough for you, 10bears. You live in a "get Cheney at all costs" world, so no matter what I say, it isn't going to change your mind.

We do business with Russia now, and enemy of 45 years prior to that time. Does that give you a hint? What's more, we even did business with Russia during the Cold War. How could this be!?X

You're absolutely right, there isn't the slightest possibility Iraq might be in violation of U.N. terms. There is no way they have WMD. It's simply about the oil.