Author Topic: so long, Constitution... (Read 1396 times)

hawk220 · « **on:** September 11, 2002, 02:45:17 PM »

10 points to the first person who can count the number of Amendments that were ripped up for the Patriot Act.

Monday, September 09, 2002, 12:00 a.m. Pacific

New law changes some legal rights of Americans

By The Associated Press

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act after the terror attacks:

• Freedom of association: To assist terror investigation, the government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity.

• Freedom of information: The government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public-records requests. "Sensitive" information has been removed from government Web sites.

• Freedom of speech: The government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

• Right to legal representation: The government may monitor conversations between attorneys and clients in federal prisons and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

• Freedom from unreasonable searches: The government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

• Right to a speedy and public trial: The government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

• Right to liberty: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. "Enemy combatants" have been held incommunicado and refused attorneys. Plans for military tribunals have been initiated.

Information from Knight-Ridder Newspapers is included in this report.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/134531987_rights09.html

(by the way..this won't be changing anytime soon...at least not in our lifetimes during the 'forever war')

Fatty · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2002, 02:48:51 PM »

Are the points redeemable?

Greese · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2002, 02:50:47 PM »

And, as I recall, correct me if I am wrong, but there is a sunset clause in there so this is only good for a small period of time, then everything will go back to normal. Welcome to war.

hawk220 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2002, 02:58:28 PM »

Im glad you mentioned that Greese...on paper it looks great.. but there will be no 'end' per-se to the 'war on terrorism'.. there can't be. whereever there is a pissed off dude with a bomb belt or rifle and a grudge against the US, there will be terrorists and the machinery (now in motion) to stop them.

Eagler · « **Reply #4 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:00:08 PM »

blame our mideast buddies

Thrawn · « **Reply #5 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:05:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler
blame our mideast buddies

No, it's Clinton's fault.

Greese · « **Reply #6 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:05:49 PM »

Good points.

Udie · « **Reply #7 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:10:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Oedipus
Long Live Dubbya!!

Yeah he sure does know how to write and pass legislature don't he!

House of Representatives.....

Senate........

Noway our congress could be partially responsible huh?

it's temporary just be glad you don't get a freakin portion of meat to last the family one week like in the big WWII........

hawk220 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:10:52 PM »

oh yes, and the US addiction to oil had nothing to do with it.. neither did US foreign policy.. its our god-damned RIGHT to drive our SUVs and Dodge RAM 4500s!

midnight Target · « **Reply #9 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:12:14 PM »

Liberty...Security... Ben Franklin.

(quoted too often, go look it up)

Udie · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:13:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Liberty...Security... Ben Franklin.

(quoted too often, go look it up)

Tree of Liberty...

Blood of tyrants and patriots....

Time to time....

Tree's getting thirsty

Thrawn · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:19:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Udie
Tree of Liberty...

Blood of tyrants and patriots....

Time to time....

Tree's getting thirsty

Udie...that's terrorist talk.

Udie · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:34:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn

Udie...that's terrorist talk.

No that's Jeferson talk and it's been proven true throughout the history of the USA.

Same as what MT posted from Ben Franklin.

Udie · « **Reply #13 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:37:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Oedipus
Udie, all totilitarian states require(d) that kind of allegiance to the head of state. That's all I meant by that. It added dramatic flair to the point I was supporting. Not that Dubya is responsible personally.

It's been a long road to this point. Started by people well before any of us were born. I do think however the current adminstistration (includes Dubya, his staff, the Judiciary arm, Congress staff etc etc) have simply taken advantage of the situtation and have expidited the loss of our liberty two fold in a years time.

There is no declaration of war. And there won't be. But we will be subjected to loss of liberties as if there was. Those who are doing this are setting it up that way for thier future. Terrorism is todays devil that continues to keep the general populace scared and the result is these people are able to get away with all of this by acting as thier champion and defender.

Don't get me wrong. Terrorism is real and a definite evil that has to be defeated. My worry for the future, especially for my kid, is that when the smoke clears the U.S government won't be something they have to fear as much or more.

Well if congress would do it's job (which it hardly seems to ever do) there will be a declaration for Iraq. Should have been for EVERY war we've ever faught. WW2 was the last one right?

And don't get me wrong. I don't want to surrender any of my rights at all. I'm willing to suspend some of them for a short period of time, but that's it. They try to usurp and I'll be there fighting right along side of you

Thrawn · « **Reply #14 on:** September 11, 2002, 03:44:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Udie
No that's Jeferson talk and it's been proven true throughout the history of the USA.

Same as what MT posted from Ben Franklin.

I know Udie.

*sigh*

I also know that I'm not an American and it's not my problem. But what's happening down there saddens me. I mean look what's happened to your civil liberties in one year. What rights are you going to lose in the next?