Author Topic: Carrier Takeoffs (Huge Gripe) (Read 1287 times)

hitech · « **Reply #30 on:** September 20, 2002, 02:52:57 PM »

From start point to deck end is 556 ft.

CV is travling at 35 mph.

F4UDOA · « **Reply #31 on:** September 20, 2002, 03:38:34 PM »

Don't you think it wouldn't be a bad idea to move the spawn point back a few feet?

It is an Essex class carrier right?

F4UDOA · « **Reply #32 on:** September 20, 2002, 04:37:36 PM »

OK,

Thinking I must be crazy I went back and tested with manual trim WEP(which I should not need) and a renewed sense of confidence I tried again.

0 for 10 tries with many flap and trim settings. I can film it but it does not matter. And F4U with 3K of ord should be able to get off the deck much better than this.

According to HT the ship is moving 35MPH which is exactly 30.4 Knots.

According to the F4U-1 pilots manual the F4U-1 at 14,200LBS in a 30Knots head wind can take off in 480FT with 30 degrees of flap. HT says the deck is 556FT from the spawn point so in theory the A/C should be airborne before the end of the deck with a 2K load(not the 3K I have been testing with). However it also says in a 30Knot wind at 13,100LBS that a takeoff of 380ft is possible. So that is a 7.7% increase in weight and a 100ft increase in takeoff distance. Increasesing the weight by another 7.7 Percent makes the weight 15,300LBS(exactly the right number) and increases the takeoff run to 600FT.

So you can safely say that we are 50FT short of a full deck run with 30 degrees of flap. So 1 or 2 things must happen.

1. Move the spawn point back 50FT
2. The flaps have to be more effective for takeoff at higher deflection not less effective as they currently are(too much drag).
3. Use WEP to get of the deck(we shouldn't have to).

Also with 2K bombs and 100% fuel the F4U-1 should fly off before the end of the runway. This is not currently the case.

whels · « **Reply #33 on:** September 20, 2002, 04:48:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by F4UDOA
OK,

Thinking I must be crazy I went back and tested with manual trim WEP(which I should not need) and a renewed sense of confidence I tried again.

0 for 10 tries with many flap and trim settings. I can film it but it does not matter. And F4U with 3K of ord should be able to get off the deck much better than this.

According to HT the ship is moving 35MPH which is exactly 30.4 Knots.

According to the F4U-1 pilots manual the F4U-1 at 14,200LBS in a 30Knots head wind can take off in 480FT with 30 degrees of flap. HT says the deck is 556FT from the spawn point so in theory the A/C should be airborne before the end of the deck with a 2K load(not the 3K I have been testing with). However it also says in a 30Knot wind at 13,100LBS that a takeoff of 380ft is possible. So that is a 7.7% increase in weight and a 100ft increase in takeoff distance. Increasesing the weight by another 7.7 Percent makes the weight 15,300LBS(exactly the right number) and increases the takeoff run to 600FT.

So you can safely say that we are 50FT short of a full deck run with 30 degrees of flap. So 1 or 2 things must happen.

1. Move the spawn point back 50FT
2. The flaps have to be more effective for takeoff at higher deflection not less effective as they currently are(too much drag).
3. Use WEP to get of the deck(we shouldn't have to).

Also with 2K bombs and 100% fuel the F4U-1 should fly off before the end of the runway. This is not currently the case.

F4U,

the 35 knots CV is moving creating the speed u see, should be added to with head wind. CVs didnt turn into the wind for nuthing
for launching planes. CV speed 35 + Headwind (say avg) 15 =
50 knots speed before u roll. that extra 15 knots would be a world of difference.

1 point F4U on takeoff length. rarely did CV planes have the full deck to run on, most time they had barely half the deck for takeoff
because of all the planes parked on aft section. if total length of deck was 880 feet, then most planes only used less then 500 to
takeoff.

whels

J_A_B · « **Reply #34 on:** September 20, 2002, 04:52:07 PM »

"0 for 10 tries with many flap and trim settings. I can film it but it does not matter. And F4U with 3K of ord should be able to get off the deck much better than this. "

Have you considered that perhaps there is some problem on your end? I can get a fully-loaded F4U off the deck every time without using WEP or rolling back.

I'm not saying there isn't necessarily something wierd with the F4U; just if you can't get airborne at all then there has to be some sort of problem on your end too since I'm flying with the same flightmodel you are.

J_A_B

whels · « **Reply #35 on:** September 20, 2002, 04:56:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by F4UDOA
Whels,

We do have a 25knot headwind here. Just look at the speedometer of the F4U when on the deck. It's at 40MPH just sitting still. Remeber a moving ship makes it's own wind.

wouldnt head wind be calculated for speed of wind blowing across the deck at speeds above CV speed?

IE for 25 knot head wind, CV speed 35 + headwind 25
= speed in plane before rolling showing 60 knots

whels

J_A_B · « **Reply #36 on:** September 20, 2002, 04:57:21 PM »

I was just thinking, what model of F4U is your manual for? IIRC different versions of the F4U's had different propellers (some had the "paddle prop", some didn't).....perhaps the one your manual is for is a different one than the AH F4U-1D?

We could check this by seeing how well things like climb data matches up with the AH F4U-1D. Whether the AH F4U-1D can get off the deck or not, it DOES seem a bit sluggish in terms of distance used.

J_A_B

whels · « **Reply #37 on:** September 20, 2002, 04:58:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by J_A_B
"0 for 10 tries with many flap and trim settings. I can film it but it does not matter. And F4U with 3K of ord should be able to get off the deck much better than this. "

Have you considered that perhaps there is some problem on your end? I can get a fully-loaded F4U off the deck every time without using WEP or rolling back.

I'm not saying there isn't necessarily something wierd with the F4U; just if you can't get airborne at all then there has to be some sort of problem on your end too since I'm flying with the same flightmodel you are.

J_A_B

a 100% fuel, 2 1ks 8 rock F4U-1d, icant get off deck without
belly floppin onto the water. its close to making it but i
always end up floating.

whels

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #38 on:** September 20, 2002, 05:10:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Samm

Only the F4U-1A had wingm tanks, the delta does not afford that option.

In the training films I own, the corsair (1-A)upon entering a stall always snapped and rolled left...and it went in a hurry. Not sure where you got that info, but my data suggests otherwise .

Gainsie

F4UDOA · « **Reply #39 on:** September 20, 2002, 05:30:22 PM »

JAB,

I have been considering for some time that everyones FE is not the same. I have noticed feel changes when deleting and reinstalling AH.

Whels is probably the best F4U jock in the game. If he cant do it I don't know what else to say. I know I can maybe one out of 20 times.

As far as the paddle prop stuff I'm the one who dug all that stuff up. The climb charts on HTC page for the F4U-1D came from me and it specifies blade type 6501A-0 which is a paddle prop.

I might try re-installing AH and see if there is a differance.

Remember there was a wave of "what happened to the F4U-1D" after 1.08 release. Weather intentional or unintention the F4U-1D is different post 1.08.

J_A_B · « **Reply #40 on:** September 20, 2002, 05:53:35 PM »

I will happily agree that the F4U feels sluggish.

That said though, I can get it off the ship with no rollback with full loadout every time, 3 notches flaps deployed before moving, not using WEP. What can be different on my computer than on yours and Whels?

I tried to make a film, but noticed that the ordnance isn't showing up in the playback. What can I do to fix this?

J_A_B

J_A_B · « **Reply #41 on:** September 20, 2002, 06:14:39 PM »

Ok, here is a film of me taking off a fully-loaded F4U. Ordnance doesn't seem to show up in the film externally, but I make a point of showing it off both before and after takeoff so that shouldn't be a problem.

I was incorrect in my earlier estimate though; I can pull up with only perhaps 5-7 feet to spare. Like I said, the fact that I can get the plane airborne doesn't mean that it isn't sluggish.

Am I doing anything differently than you guys are?

J_A_B

ZIP file should follow:

thrila · « **Reply #42 on:** September 20, 2002, 06:33:16 PM »

Never flown an f4u1d so i thought i would give it a go taking off s carrier.

2 1000lbs, rockets and 100% fuel (no WEP)- i managed 3 out of 4 attempts. With 50% fuel i did it everytime. The only time i went into the drink was on my 2nd attempt- i think the trick to it is to ease back on the stick just before u leave the deck to get ready for when the nose dips. Well the nose dips for me anyway.

Here was my 1st attempt (almost augered this one:D )

hey nice film with all the instructions, jab. I sorta just rolled down the carrier with 1 notch of flaps then lowered to 2 then 3 as i went off the deck....hehehe.

MrLars · « **Reply #43 on:** September 20, 2002, 07:24:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by whels

a 100% fuel, 2 1ks 8 rock F4U-1d, icant get off deck without
belly floppin onto the water. its close to making it but i
always end up floating.

whels

Hey Whels...I think you've finaly found something that your $12 joystick can't handle

whgates3 · « **Reply #44 on:** September 21, 2002, 12:00:33 AM »

anyone whom is interested in the F4U should get the Oct '02 Aeroplane Monthly. amongst the many revelations in the F4U articles is this:
"[after the dangerous stalling characteristics were discovered in F4U-1 test flights]...The new vaiant was the F4U-1a...A piece of metal about 6in long. or "stalling strip", was added to the leading edge of the starboard outer wing panel near the gun ports, causing the wing to stall at the same time as the other, preventing the dangerous dropping-off effect"