Giving Muting power to customers.. BIG mistake!!

[Jekyll]

Well if the mysterious muter used the words "use disgression" you gotta figure it was HT who sent the message.

After all, how many other guys in the arena spell like that?  

[ElLobo]

LoL Jeckyl, I was thinking the same thing. The mans a genious,but can't spell worth a dam. Maybe he's trying out a new feature. Possibly having sysops monitor channel 1 and muting juvenile behaviour.Doesn't matter to me.I usually squelch 1 anyway. Personally I prefer it wide open with no holds barred. Its a War Game, be mean, be nasty, get mad, kill something, or blow something up,but never,Ever, say dick  

[Dowding]

Absolutely pathetic!!!!

You're muting people for using the word 'dick'? I saw BKNute utter the following:

"Let's have trains of jews in AH..." or something to that effect.

When I complained I was told that it was not offensive.

What the hell is all that about?



[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 03-19-2001).]

[Vulcan]

Some simple thoughts:
 - this type of deputisation has killed other online games (I've thought about playing some non-Sims only to hear that sysops rule)
 - the text buffer only occupies a small amount of screen real-estate
 - certain channels are now squelchable
 - the player can squelch individuals quite easily

It seems to me that players have a wealth of choices when it comes to ignoring/squelching the roadkill that goes on on ch#1 (and which I take great joy in contributing too).

There are a few examples in this discussion of unusual muting, HT I think you need to clarify what the policy is exactly when it comes to 'deputies' of HTC prowling Ch #1. IE is it true? I make no judgements on the right or wrong of it - $$$ will sort that out in the long run if it works or not.

[Pepe]

I would like to have some official comment from Htc. people. I do not like censorship. OTOH, I have to retract about my opinion about automatic filtering cusswords. I think that the balance is positive, on the long run. Different animal is if particular people have muting powers. If that is the case, I would like to know who, and what is the general criteria. I can understand Htc. has every single power within this game environment, but It's a hard pill to swallow that a person, not a Htc. employee, has powers over me, especially when It's an anonymous person, with unknown criteria, and that I am unable to report if I feel mistreated.

Given the precedents, I have no doubt Htc. will have something to say about this, and will do.

Cheers,

Pepe

[CavemanJ]

 

Originally posted by TheWobble:
LOL!  I love that word!

I never knew this existed..but now some things that have happened are starting to make some sense...2 days ago I was taking off in an arado to go somewhere and I asked on team channel "what is alt of cons at A-XX"  i get no reply (as usual) so about a min later I ask again..still nothing..im nearing target and seeing some high dots but cannot tell if they are friendly or not9there were several firendlies in the grid).  So finally i type in a ll caps "WHAT IS THE ALT OF THE CONS AT A-XX!!!? PLEASE!!!"
I get a warning...so yea like thats great..ask for info and get a warning...any who i keep heading to target...im in bombsight view..just as field is coming up i get "CHECK 6"  CRAP! I think i look up and there are 2 190s above me and diving FAST, i dump bombs (hitting nothing) and fire my ratos and just get away.  On the way home i type "thanks for the stellar intel on A-xx"
about 2 seconds later i get muted for 10 min, i logged for the night reconsidering my account.

I would just like to tell whoever was being the amazinhunk great job diddlyING
up a totally fun game with Your roadkill

Mute that you salamander BASTARD

If that's exactly what you said, and you weren't cussing them out about the lack of info on the target area, that's a clear abuse of sysop powers.

These may be a couple examples of a new sysop being a tad overzealous in wanting to show they can do a job.  I've been an IRCop for going on 4 years now.  Every so often we'll get a new op who "overdoes it" wanting to show we were right to trust him with the position.  Usually a gentle talking to straightens them out.

Maybe the idea of the 'Muters' having to fill out incident reports has some merit.  With any power there must be some accountability.  I've been called out many times because a user complained to the admins thinking I was too harsh with a kline/kill.  The admin comes to me, I hand over my logs of the incident along with personal commentary, and he decides.  I've not been overturned in one of these yet <knocks on wood>.
Sounds like some checks and balance are missing from this.  Anonymous power will be abused.  

And probably the hardest part about this kind of position is separating personal opinion from the offical "what's acceptable" list.  Let's use the bit someone posted above about 'trains of jews' as an example.  There's nothing in the official list about this, nor guidelines about the context it was used in.  Now let's add 2 "muters" to this example, one is jewish and one isn't.  The non-jew thinks it might be in bad taste, but not warranting his intervention.  The jew decides that is exactly the kind of thing HTC has granted him powers for and promptly mutes the person w/o any thought on the matter.  Was that personal opinion or official opinion that brought about that player being muted?  And since the "muters" are anonymous there's no balance to the system to catch those who abuse thier power.

I'da thought they'd [HTC] have posted something in the news board that they were going to create 'language police' just so we all would have a heads up ::shrug::

As to being muted again upon reentering the arena:  That may be something tracked by the server.  It knows you're muted and you have xxx seconds left until you are unmuted.  You log off and the server looses track of you (obviously).  Log back in, say something on the readio, and the server picks you back up and makes you finish your muted period.

[Dowding]

I really can't see how a comment about "trains of jews" can be deemed acceptable by anyone, Jewish or not. Especially considering this game is a WW2 based arena and a conscious effort has been made to distance the ideology and therefore the actions of the Nazi regime (i.e. the removal of sawastika from most Axis planes) from the gameplay.

Surely if we are going to have people with the powers to reprimand players for their behaviour, this is the exactly the sort of thing they should be targeting?

Not just some infantile name-calling tantrum involving a word that would pass any TV censor (at least in this country).

[-towd_]

secret moral police?

 just got to love this idea.  censorship with the most nobal of purposes is always perverted. but htc dosent give a good godambed what we think. we are sheep to be herded .  when another compeditive sim comes out look at this roadkill to evaporate.

[Westy]

 Jesus, this is one of the most pathetic topics I've seen here to date. A few "sumbuddies" obviously need noon time naps before going back out to play.

 You KNOW you have one sad sack of a discussion going when it attracts -Eeyore- to comment. <tries to tack towd's tail back on>

 -Westy

[lazs]

censorship seems to allways degenerate into this sillieness.   good thing "balls" isn't a  muteable offense like "dick" eh dingy?

Not sure how this works but when dingy went off on me I used the word "suck" and he used the word "balls" apparently they are ok but wulfie can't use "dick"?

We need a list.
lazs

[air_reaper]

 The way I see it we are all playing in HT`s house. If he does not want people running around swearing, and cussing up a storm then by all means he has the right to do whatever it takes to stop it.
 Censorship? Don`t you think you use that word rather loosely? You have the right to call others names? To walk in their house and use profanity? I think not.

[Sky Viper]

LOL...GOTTA LOVE IT!

ONLY HT would misspell disgression...LMAO!

I have been on line and had him do the same to me for using toejame...then I reply...Sure HT, whatever you say, and he pops up another window with a smiley .
BTW, if I remember (I saw the Dingy-SeaWulfe verbal exchange) HT was on around that time talking about his ski trip.



------------------
Sky Viper

[Ripsnort]

I'll make 2 comments:

1) I think User end mute is a good idea if only used for the purpose of muting racist remarks regarding ones color, country origin, yadda yadda yadda... since HTC employees cannot be online 24/7.  If there is one thing I think we can all agree on, is that there is no room in this sim or any other for racial remarks. (God, I hope thats the case).

2) Regarding quitting over an incident like this...put your hand in a 55 gallon drum of water, now, pull it out...see any significant drop in the level of water?  Nope.  By a dozen people quitting over such a thing as described by Wulfie, there are a dozen more that just signed up.

Mute power for bad language...no...mute power for racial remarks...YES!

[aknimitz]

Air_reapr, regarding your "We are all playing in HT's House" comment ... we are also all paying to play in HT's house.  Were we not, the situation would be quite different.  But because we are, and because HTC does not exist without us, I think this matter must be taken seriously.

For the record, I really dont care what is censored.  I dont like it, but censor dick, jesus christ, censor bickering, I dont care - JUST DO IT ACROSS THE BOARD!  Singling out people for their acts when not done uniformly is BS.  

Ripsnort, regarding your 55-gallon hypothetical, that is just, well, unfortunate.  We are paying customers.  A *real* business does not want to lose a single customer, and aims to at least try to please everyone.  Because that is not realistic, you at least try to not piss anyone off.  Running a business is not about, "oh well, if 10 leave, I bet we get 10 more" when something could be done to prevent the 10 from leaving!  I understand where you are coming from, and its true, I just think it is also very unprofessional.

I fully support and stand by AKSwulfe on this issue.  Not because he is my squad mate, but because he is right.

AKNimitz/XO Arabian Knights

[CRASH]

Fact is you called someone a Dick for sayin' "whatever".  You broke the rules, you got muted, deal with it.  There's no rule about everybody havin' to be ur friend in the arena but there is a rule about callin someone a vulgarity.  People get frustrated when they get pieces shot off of their plane, what did you expect anyway, a pat on the back.  It doesnt sound like it was much of a fite.  
      I'm suprised ur squad allows that kind of behavior.  If I was an AK, I'd be upset about being associated with that sorta crap.

CRASH