Gunning down ejectee's

[Anchor]

I generally never shoot a chutes just because it never seemed worthwhile. However, I have never been offended by it either. Last night, I was on one of Rockstar's missions and we were capping a field for goons. With our goons ib NOE and several cons nearby who were closing on the field, a chute opens close to the town. Someone said kill the chute so he can't report the goons, and the died quickly.

While I probably want seek out a chute to kill, I will most definitely evaluate whether a chute is a threat from now on.

I love the idea of .45's to shoot back.  I'll pull the cord at 20K if we get that.

[lazs2]

so.. to sumarize..

shooting chutes takes skill and daring.

shooting chutes is good gunnery practice.

shooting chutes irritates the "right" kind of people and will hopefully drive them into the ct.

anyone who bails probly didn't put up a very good fight in any case.

It makes a nice explosion.

There are no hospitals or orhanages to strafe.

It get's the coward back up faster so that you can shoot him down again.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[VWE001]

Here is the real story because I'm the one who shot you down!

I had just taken off in a P-51B while a flight of 2, yes dingbat you were a flight of 2, B-17's had just dropped on my field. Dingbat was at about 12k so seeing as the P-51B takes a little time to climb up there I kept him at around 4k from me. I continued to climb up to about 16k and then closed the distance till I was directly overhead. Dingbat started shooting short bursts at me when I was 1.6k away and continued to fire at me durring all my passes.

It is apparent that dingbat has never been attacked by anyone other than someone climbing up his dead 6 or from a plane that has only machine guns. The P-51B has 4 .50's dingbat and not a whole bunch of those rounds in it either.

When I was in position directly over head I dove down at the remaining ai bomber first, after making my short run I continued in my dive for another thousand feet or so then pulled back up to altitude. On my second pass #2 bomber caught on fire and I knew it was only a matter of time till she blew so I concentrated on bomber #1.

To shoot down 2 B-17's in a P-51B without taking any damage from their offensive guns is very tough to do. And accomplishing that task in only 10 minutes is one heck of a job, I challenge you to even attempt to shoot down just 1 of my flight of B-17's dingbat!

Oh and I forgot to mention your subsequent 400+mph dives and 2 loops in a B-17. I was never in any danger of crashing into any mountain and you bailed directly in front of me. I just helped you get back to the tower in a more timely fashion which was good because I shot you down 3 more times that night.

[DamnedBuzzard]

Originally posted by Seagoon


Hi DamnedBuzzard,

My bad. I know I probably should never have gotten into this one. Having a discussion about the ethics of something in a forum with no absolute ethical standard is fairly impossible. I'll leave this one well alone after this - especially because I'm well aware that this makes a BBS designed for fun all too heavy and serious and for that I'm sincerely sorry.

But let me raise a couple of thoughts that I hope may provoke a thought or two. Shooting pilots parachuting from stricken aircraft is actually a violation of a quaint old document called the Geneva Convention. It was for activities like this (and machine-gunning people in life-rafts) that we tried and hung men at Nuremburg and even a few in Japan. We once accepted that this, along with things like strafing refugees, was a morally abhorent activity, even in wartime. These were considered acts of murder not war.

Yes, I'm aware this is just a simulation, and that these are "simulated murders and war crimes" and that there are far worse sims out there (rape, serial killing, theft, etc.) But there's an old saying, "character is what you are in the dark". Society exposes its soul through the things that its citizens enjoy doing when no-one else can see. We are in a sense more honest in the games we play, than in the way we act in the world. If we are honorable, and courageous, faithful, and fair, etc. in the dark, then we will be so in the light of day. But if we are nothing but vile, adulterous, vicious, rapacious, etc. in our fantasies, then at heart we are barbarians and it's our civility that is a sham.

Personally, I don't like to think what the long term effects of ever-more realistic games that nurture or promote evil behavior will be on our culture (especially in the case of children). I think only the naive would say that they'll be good.

Do what you will, but as for me, I don't want to shoot chutes, not in the games I play or in reality.

- SEAGOON

Sorry Reverend but your argument still holds no water. While character may be "what you are in the dark" there is still a difference between that and a game. I'm surprised you can't grasp that. What you do in the dark is still real. Real people suffer from your bad actions. This is pixels on a phosphor screen. No one suffers. End of story.

[Dingbat]

Originally posted by VWE001
blah blah blah

I'm not arguing the fact that you shot the plane down, It was just a question about the mannerism in which you shot me in a chute.  In flying for about 3 weeks now you were the first to do that, needless to say i wasn't exactly expecting it.  Your quote about the "real story" I don't recall lying about anything i said.  And what about the poor mommy comments  and from an external view it did look like you came awefully close to hitting the mountain but who care, not exactly a lot of depth perception in AH.

[myelo]

Originally posted by Anchor
I generally never shoot a chutes just because it never seemed worthwhile.

Shooting chutes is sort of like sex. If you're not enjoying it, your probably not doing it right.

[DingHao2]

I only shoot spit dweebs, 262 dweebs (only in h2h), and n1k dweebs...that way, i'll encourage them to fly in a more challenging plane that wont end up with me shooting them in their chutes

[Puck]

Originally posted by Seagoon


Hi DamnedBuzzard,

My bad. I know I probably should never have gotten into this one. Having a discussion about the ethics of something in a forum with no absolute ethical standard is fairly impossible. I'll



 

Ok, I can handle that.

On the other hand, if you don't want 18-ish year old kids playing God don't give them guns and tell them to kill people.

I'm not disputing the points you make, but I'll say things look much different out there at the bloody end of the spear.  You get weary listening to people back enjoying the comforts of home questioning the morality of your survival while you're hanging it all out on the line, ostensibly so they can keep those comforts.

>

It's a sticky wickett, either way.

The REALLY bad news is I agree with you

[hogenbor]

Curiously, I have one kill AS a chute.

Hoew does this happen? Is a kill awarded when someone you shot up before having to bail out bails out themselves or crashes?

Or a proxy kill?

---

I have limited experience but I  have never been shot at while floating gently down, and I don't like the idea of shooting chutes, not even in a simulation. I am also well aware that it happened historically on all sides.

[Shiva]

Curiously, I have one kill AS a chute.

Hoew does this happen? Is a kill awarded when someone you shot up before having to bail out bails out themselves or crashes?

That, and when someone augers near you without having taken any damage, and you're closer than anyone else you get the kill. Got two kills of planes trying to strafe me as I was running vehicles supplies in an M3 recently.

[Seagoon]

Originally posted by Puck
I'm not disputing the points you make, but I'll say things look much different out there at the bloody end of the spear.  You get weary listening to people back enjoying the comforts of home questioning the morality of your survival while you're hanging it all out on the line, ostensibly so they can keep those comforts.

>

It's a sticky wickett, either way.

The REALLY bad news is I agree with you

Hi Puck, I know I said I'd let it go but, I did want to respond to your comments, and thank you for seeing beyond the "its just a game" answer.

I Pastor a church in Fayetteville, which is home to Ft. Bragg and Pope Air Force Base, so most of my congregation are either members of or dependent on the military. I have guys in my congregation who have been in multiple combat situations, who have remained ethical and honorable even when the men trying to kill them were operating strictly according to "ends justify means" thinking. These men I pastor are called on to do a dangerous, nasty, necessary job again and again who nonetheless do it without searing their consciences and without becoming barbarous in the process, they are by and large upstanding individuals and I am honored to pastor them and their families. The thing is, the reason they don't become barbarians under the incredible stress of combat is that their ethics are not some sort of written military code that they disregard as soon as they think no one is looking, but part of their very being. The idea of commiting attrocities is alien to who they are.

My experience however has uniformly been that in counseling situations, people "act out" based on their fantasy life.  Men into online porn are usually the guys who move on to real life adultery, kids into games stressing murder, theft, etc. (GTA III for instance) often mindlessly violent in reality - as long as they think they can get away with it.  Our dreams and desires say more about who we really are than the face we put on for the outside world. So... here's the rub, I have no reason to believe (in fact quite the opposite) that an individual who sees no problem in "playing" or "fantasizing" about war crimes wouldn't do these things under the stress of real combat. And ultimately the fear of punishment is not enough to restrain people from evil behavior, either our internal ethics preclude it, or its all just a matter of time, venue, and opportunity.

Ok, now unless someone else directly interacts, I'll leave it at that - really.  

- SEAGOON

[Goner]

Originally posted by Glasses It wasn't common practice for the LW to do that as they thought it was despicable ...

?!
ever heard of Guernica, glamazinhunk ??

oh wait, those were only civilians and they were bombed, not shot ...

Goner

[Furious]

AH has become far to complacent about the shooting of chutes.  

Where is the outrage?  Where is the moral indignation?  Where are the questions of honor?

Bring those days back.

While it is entirely fun and some times righteous to kill a chuter, it is SO much more fun when they spew on channel 1.


...and Seagoon, if  you are having trouble with the virtual/nonvirtual thing, you need the help.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Goner

?!
ever heard of Guernica, glamazinhunk ??

oh wait, those were only civilians and they were bombed, not shot ...

Goner

Wrong, Goner.  The fighters went down to strafe after the bombers had finished their work.  The experiment wouldn't have been complete without the strafing, don't you see.

- oldman

[Holden McGroin]

I think AH should allow us a sidearm or maybe even a Tommy gun while hangin' in the chute.  That would make it interesting.