Author Topic: re-thinking La7 use. (Read 2927 times)

Shane · « **Reply #45 on:** October 02, 2002, 04:02:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
Flown correctly: Grab 15-20k, ambush anything below you.
Tell ya what, meet me in the TA sometime, we'll both grab one and you'll see just how remarkable the SBD really is.
Tell me, how many of these do you find flying in the ack of a CV?
Yak-9U
SpitV
C.205
SpitIX
N1K2
Bf 109G2
Hurricane Mk.I
Yak-9T
Fw 190D-9
F4U-4
I have multiple kills on nearly all of those. I've shot down P-51s at 25k, Jugs at 10-15k. I'm as likely to fly the SBD from a land base as from a CV. However, Karnak was there the other night when we were operating off of a CV. He could vouch for how I fly the SBD; high CAP, getting lots of kills and yeah, an ack assisted kill now and then. By the same token, I've lost a few SBDs to friendly ack chasing Ju 88s. Generally speaking, it's a wash.

Geez Shane, get out of the dweeb rides a try a "real man's" airplane! 250 mph (if you have 10 minutes), 1,500 ft/min climb (if light fuel and no ord), with just two little MGs....
My regards,
Widewing

lol, i know how an sbd can fly. 2 little .50's aren't gonna get a lot of kills without a lot of ack assisted help. they're not a one pass kill plane. and i have also seen you operate in cv acks, plenty of times. you do the same with an fm2. no shame in simply admitting to it - that hanging in fleet acks provides a lot of help, read: kills. that's your thing to do. and yeah planes of all types wander into fleet ack range, moreso now with all the newbies signing up (and seemingly defaulting to bish - cod knows i've killed a ton of bish last camp, more than the usual).

i've served my time in "real men's planes" and it's much more fun to get in the dweeb ride la7 and go on a dweeb killing spree - it's a lot harder for them to run, and since i'm not usually found in fleet acks (or base acks for that matter) it's also helpful in avoiding the monkey-hordes.

different strokes and all that, but at least try not to make it sound harder than it really is.

AvidMC · « **Reply #46 on:** October 02, 2002, 04:08:41 PM »

Widewing - I'm with you brother!!! The other day I upped an SBD to go drop an egg on a CV. Just as I got close to the CV, at about 12k, I see an LA-7 coming for the head on. I remembered someone saying how much fun it was to fight with the SBD so I figured what the hell. I ditched the egg and in I went. I avoided 2 HO passes and by now had the dolt nice and slow. I worked to his 6 and got a few pings in. He immediately ran for the CV ack!!!. I gave chase while laughing my arse off at the sight of a lame 7 driver running for his life from an SBD. I got down low and a Spit joined in so I dispatched him. By now I was in range of the CV guns and was back pinging the Lame 7. But alas, before I could finish him off I got popped by a CV gunner. It was the most fun I have had in a long time, I only wish I had filmed it so I would have a nice picture of an LA-7 running away from my deadly SBD!!!

Avid

Widewing · « **Reply #47 on:** October 02, 2002, 04:40:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Turbot

--Digged a little deeper : slapshot has 247 kills and has been killed 139 times in the FM2.

Oh gezzz you are one of THOSE

But, you see that you'e not going to be running away from anything in the FM-2. This is a slug-it-out fighter if there ever was one. I love it, and it's my primary ride. Mostly flying Big Blue Birds this tour and enjoying every minute of it.

Like Laz, I'll grab a P-51B for dealing with field gangbangs, but rather than take an La-7, I prefer the Yak-9U.

Moreover, I agree with Laz that these monster field gang fests are getting rediculous. There were about 60 Knits hitting A8 last night. One's only option was to grab a fast fighter (P-51B) from the nearest field and cherry pick the incoming horde.

My regards,

Widewing

Widewing · « **Reply #48 on:** October 02, 2002, 05:05:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shane

lol, i know how an sbd can fly. 2 little .50's aren't gonna get a lot of kills without a lot of ack assisted help. they're not a one pass kill plane. and i have also seen you operate in cv acks, plenty of times. you do the same with an fm2. no shame in simply admitting to it - that hanging in fleet acks provides a lot of help, read: kills. that's your thing to do. and yeah planes of all types wander into fleet ack range, moreso now with all the newbies signing up (and seemingly defaulting to bish - cod knows i've killed a ton of bish last camp, more than the usual).

i've served my time in "real men's planes" and it's much more fun to get in the dweeb ride la7 and go on a dweeb killing spree - it's a lot harder for them to run, and since i'm not usually found in fleet acks (or base acks for that matter) it's also helpful in avoiding the monkey-hordes.

different strokes and all that, but at least try not to make it sound harder than it really is.

Come on Shane, cut the baloney. When you are the only fighter defending a CV, you can damn well rest assured that you will be ducking into the ack when the horde shows up. But what do you do when the CV gets tanked? You can't run in the FM-2, so what do you do? You fight. You kill 'em all and then go home.

Besides, you really have no idea how I fly. We've flown together once this tour, you in the La-7 and I had a 109F. Remember, we were taking turns clubing McNasty.

Take the challenge, fly 100 sorties in the SBD. Fly from a CV, do whatever you want. But don't rationalize or feed your ego stating that I'm relying on ship ack for kills. Those Rooks I fly with will laugh at that suggestion.

You're right, you don't get many snap shot kills with the SBD. You have to saddle up and hang on to 'em. None of this hit and flee stuff will do. However, do not underestimate those two guns, I've brought down more than a few Buffs and PTs with them. The SBD is the only bomber in this game I can fly without the slightest dread of encounters with fighters. Indeed, If I've got some altitude, they had better not ignore that little dive bomber...

As Avid showed us, you get slow fighting an SBD, you get dead pretty quick.

My regards,

Widewing

slimm50 · « **Reply #49 on:** October 02, 2002, 05:29:36 PM »

[QUOTEWhile we can all agree (i think we can ) that the La-7 could be considered uber...not every pilot who flies one is uber too

Heheheh, I'm a good example of that thinking: I fly the La7 occassionally, but to say I'm not "an uber pilot" would be an understatement. I just fly and fight to have a good time. My personal fav is the Pony, in any situation not involving CVs.

Vulcan · « **Reply #50 on:** October 02, 2002, 07:39:42 PM »

I'm sorry but the La7 is an overrated threat.

The plane itself in its advantages has many weaknesses. There are only two pilots I respect in the La7, Shane and Kbman. Apart from that the rest are complete tards and have no idea how to fly this fighter properly.

Weak points: bad turning without intense throttle management; bad pitch control at high AoA; overshoots easy; pilots tend be blacked out most of the time; low rof; huge drop on gun ballastics; shocking low 12 view; deadmeat in a HO.

There are many ways to defeat La7s.

Vulcan has 23 kills and has been killed 5 times in the Typhoon IB against the La-7.

Vulcan has 197 kills and has been killed 23 times in the Typhoon IB.

As for the newbie gangbangs, I'd have to disagree, in the last week I have been shocked by the number of guys who have clearly dragged me away from the 'gang' or ack for a decent fight. Big ~~to some of those newbies.~~

Karnak · « **Reply #51 on:** October 02, 2002, 08:47:18 PM »

I can't tell you guys how much I'd prefer an MA style environment, but timed to mid 1943 instead of the end of 1944. Even late 1943 would be vastly better.

Keep the fast, late war aircraft in there, but perk them.

1943 would offer a nice wide range of interesting aircraft, such as:

80' Elco PT Boat
A6M5 "Zeke"
A-20
B-17G
B-24
B-25
B-26B
B6N2 "Jill"
Beaufighter Mk X
Bf109G-2
Bf109G-6
Bf110G-2
C.205
C-47A
D4Y2 "Judy"
E Boat
F4U-1
F6F-3
Flakpanzer 38(t)
FM-2
Fw190A-5
G4M2 "Betty"
G.55
H8K2 "Emily"
Halifax Mk III
He177A-5
Hs129B-2
Hurricane Mk IIc
Hurricane Mk IId
Il-2 Type 3
J2M2 "Jack"
Ju52
Ju87G-1
Ju88A-4
Ju88C-6b
Ju188A-2
Ki-21-IIb "Sally"
Ki-43-IIb "Oscar"
Ki-44-IIb "Tojo"
Ki-61-Ia "Tony"
La-5FN
Lancaster Mk III
LTV(A)2
LTV(A)4
M3
M4A3 (75mm)
M8
M16
Me410A-2
Mosquito B.Mk IX
Mosquito FB.Mk VI
Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII
P-38J
P-39Q
P-40N
P-47D-5
P-51A
P-51B
Panzer IV H
Pe-2
Re.2005
SBD-5
SdKfz 232
Seafire Mk III
S.M.79-II
Spitfire HF.Mk IX
Spitfire LF.Mk IX
T-34/85
TBM-3
Tiger I
Type VII U-Boat
Typhoon Mk Ib
Wellington Mk IX
Yak-9D
Yak-9T
Z.107

Now tell me that mix of units isn't more appealing and less dominated by a few well armed speed demons than the late 1944 MA we have. There are many more that I didn't list, yet the list I presented is a more even mix by far than what we have now.

_____________________________ ____________________

Yes, I saw Widewing using the SBD as a fighter, and killing things out away from the AA umbrella. I still don't think he could kill a fighter pilot that had any clue as to what he was doing. The fighter might not get the SBD, but the SBD should have no chance to get the fighter. I can't imagine losing to an SBD in my Mossie of 190A-5.

rv6 · « **Reply #52 on:** October 03, 2002, 06:27:55 AM »

What's all the hub-bub over this tin-can looking piece of garish Russky crap-O-la~? I'm surprised it could taxi out of the hangar,, sounding like "Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang" (pieces of metal falling off, empennage hanging to one side, etc)

lazs2 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 03, 2002, 08:22:09 AM »

beetle.. I think mostly everyone is getting the point.... except you.

The La is no uber plane and can quite easily be defeated in a good furball. I am 10/1 against La's or better because of the fights I choose. I think that all you are doing is proving that you know nothing whatsoever about the plane. I would challenge you to take up a La7 and try to do well in a furball. If you ever try one your opinion of them might take on a little more weight. I personally think that you will do very poorly. Certainly nothing like the automatic kill machine you attribute to the La.

The "missun" mentality in the ma, prime time, is just awful lately. Everyone is so timid that they avoid a fight at all costs... everyone is starved for kills and 10 cons chasing one guy in the wrong place at the wrong time is the new way. When I get a kill these days it means I have managed to steal it from 4-10 other guys.

Worse... the anal building battlers think they are wanted and needed... If you manage to get a little furball going between a cv and a base say.... They "help" by butting in and killing the cv or fighter hangers and with a hearty salute... " I got the cv/fighter hangers guys so I'm off to pork some other fight seeya later!".

or.... "BIG MISSUN UP.. 130 OF US ARE GONNA FLY 4 SECTORS TO KILL THE FIGHTER HANGES AT A5... 10 SLOTS LEFT".
lazs

SlapShot · « **Reply #54 on:** October 03, 2002, 10:32:12 AM »

The plane itself in its advantages has many weaknesses. There are only two pilots I respect in the La7, Shane and Kbman. Apart from that the rest are complete tards and have no idea how to fly this fighter properly.

Vulcan ...

You are using a VERY wide brush to paint a picture here. Yes, Shane is supreme in the La-7 (don't know Kbman - sorry bud), but to label anyone else that flies the La-7 a TARD is streching it. I would consider myself a GOOD La-7 pilot and have gotten better watching Shane's films of him fighting in the La-7, but I am far from a TARD.

I went goon hunting last night and got bounced by 2 run-O-9s that were protecting the goon. Using some of Shane's moves, I got a couple of snapshot solutions, unable to get the kill, but eventually flew both of them into the ground/ocean (proximity kills) and then killed the goon.

Lazs ...

No matter home many times you bring up this subject, IT WILL NEVER CHANGE. Missions will always take place and somewhere along the line, they are going to pork the base or destroy the CV that is supplying your furball.

The guys that play the strat game have a different agenda (you know that) and will destroy any threat (base or CV) that jepordizes the path to the "end game". I am a "strat" guy at heart, but also enjoy some good furball at times. When the base or CV is destroyed that supplies the furball, within a short period of time, another furball will appear somewhere on the map, and that is where I will move to. Easy ...

I guess you feel the need to keep reminding us of how you prefer to play the game ... thats cool.

beet1e · « **Reply #55 on:** October 03, 2002, 01:24:35 PM »

Lazs-7 -

Quote

Certainly nothing like the automatic kill machine you attribute to the La.

I didn't say that at all. My feeling about the LA7 is that is holds all the cards in the manoeuvrability stakes and has incredible performance - fastest unperked prop plane in the game. (?) I am not afraid of the LAzs7. In the tour just ended, I killed 17 of them and was killed by a LAzs7 only twice. I can live with that. There are two reasons I don't fear the LA7: 1) They are often flown by Tards/dweebs, which leads to... 2) They often attempt an HO, and come off worse than their opponent. That's certainly the case if they try that toejam against my P47. Speaking of which, I got a 33/2 k/d in the D25 last ToD, so I don't feel I need dweeb planes like the Lazs-7.

But Lazs is right. I am a slow learner, and missed the point of his post - was there one?

Puke · « **Reply #56 on:** October 03, 2002, 01:38:17 PM »

Quote

There are many ways to defeat La7s.

The only way I've found to defeat them is with altitude and speed and jumping on them while they are already engaged or slow from just being in a fight. It's been about 1.5 yrs flying online and my rides of choice have been the Hellcat, F4U-1 and P-51B and I'm still scratching my head on how to defeat the LA7 badboy from anywhere near equal terms. Most of the people who post here are excellent sticks, far above the norm, and so when you state the LA7 is an easy kill, I just have to throw those comments out the window because I'm certain you do not represent the experiences of the arena at large. And then when the average and below average players have to run up against good sticks in an LA7, oh my...I think we know we are really just flying for score/points and can't take our lumps....furball conga line or not.

Quote

I can't tell you guys how much I'd prefer an MA style environment, but timed to mid 1943 instead of the end of 1944. Even late 1943 would be vastly better. Keep the fast, late war aircraft in there, but perk them.

Karnak, I agree with you.

Quote

fastest unperked prop plane in the game.

Fastest has no real benefits in a dogfight. A true dogfight engagment occurs at speeds much less than top end. It's acceleration that is important. It's acceleration that regains the speed so that you can sustain more G turns.

lazs2 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 03, 2002, 02:26:03 PM »

beetle... since you brought up your score....

You average about a 1.5/1 k/d over the last three tours and kill maybe 50 planes a tour... you average less than 4 kills per hour and you NEVER fly the La7.. now, those stats suggest that no... you don't know what I am talking about or... even what you are talking about.

Your stats show that you not only don't furball in a La7... you don't even fly one. Who cares how dweeby you think flying one into a horde of vultchers and then ruinning home is since it is apparent that you avoid all contact with other planes. It is obvious that you hate La's because they can hunt your cowardly solitary but down and kill you.

oh... the lazs7?? you do know how many sorties i have flown one in the last half dozen tours don't you? What, maybe 1/2 of 1%?

and slap.. my beef is not with the anal strat guys taking fields in a mob necessarily... I mean, if they think that is fun but.... they got the whole map to gangbang so... why come over to a worthless field or cv to "help out"? Why? well.... because they crave the attention. They want to be part of what is happening. they can't get the furballers to join em so they join the furballers. Like I said... they have plenty of other targets/fields whatever. why ruin the only good furball. Sure, another one will develop given time but as soon as they see some numbers..... the friggin strat guys will drag their attention starved butts over to ruin it. I'm just saying it seems like it is getting worse lately.
lazs

Urchin · « **Reply #58 on:** October 03, 2002, 02:29:32 PM »

I am sort of surprised that people seem to have such a low opinion of the LA-7. As a fighter I mean. It is a superb fighter, in my opinion only being slightly less well rounded overall than the P-51. The P-51 gets the nod from me because it has excellent low speed handling and the La-7 doesn't. Of course, the La-7 driver never has to get to low speed if he doesn't want to, and he can go from 200 to 300 mph in about 3 seconds flat. I think the La-7 is probably the 'best' plane for a lone-wolf pilot, or someone who is fighting without squaddies in an area where his team is outnumbered by 3 or more to 1 (which is pretty standard in the MA).

Like I said before, the La-7 in the MA is mostly flown by mediocre pilots that don't really know how to fight. They know how to run, and they know how to BnZ, but as far as actually fighting 1v1 goes, 95% of them haven't got a clue. If you can sucker them into a situation where they'll expose themselves to a shot without realizing it, you can generally kill them. Of course, if you screw up (at least in the 190s and 109s I normally fly) they'll wear you down in an extended fight.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #59 on:** October 03, 2002, 03:14:02 PM »

LA-7 = El Gay - Seven

eskimo