Inside the Mind of the Antigun Male: Psycho-Sexual Insecurities

[GtoRA2]

You once again ignored my question? Why not answer it?

The area I live in is actually very nice and the neighbors where renters, the owner evicted them about 9 months after I moved in, since then I have never felt I needed a gun.

You seem to think guns make people bad. If not why is it bad for good people to own them?

I would rather have a gun and not need it then not have one it I ever do need it.

You wonder about the areas we live in? You say you spent allot of time in the U.S.?

I live in a great town, but 20 minutes away in two directions there are slums, that you can be killed in for wearing the wrong color. Even poor people have cars and can drive to a nice area and take what they want. I have never been robed, nor my house broken into, but many of my neighbors have.

You will never be able to take guns out of the hands of criminals. Ban them all you want, it is already illegal for a convicted criminal to own one, but they get them all the time.
The big bank robbery where a few years back where the Jokers shot up LA with full auto assault rifles did not buy them legally, nor in the U.S.

You ban guns in the U.S. and you make me and many gun owners criminals cause we will not give them up.

The day they ban them is the day my get stolen.

[beet1e]

GTO - you seem to have stopped laughing!  

Sorry not to have answered your question last time. I have since done some digging, and come up with a Home Office document with a wealth of crime stats for all pissant countries. I have .ZIPped it and attach it here - it is a .PDF document, so you can open it with Adobe Acrobat.  

The answer to your question lies on page 3, on which murder stats are given as murders per 100,000 people. In England and Wales, that figure is given as 1.5. For the USA, the value is 6.3. In Washington DC, it is 50.8.  Not sure of the exact UK population figure, but it's around 57,000,000 - but that includes Scotland and Northern Ireland. So, by extrapolation, I would assume that the annual number of murders in England and Wales for the period analysed (1999) would be between 600 and 800.

I would rather have a gun and not need it then not have one it I ever do need it.

I prefer the third option, which is not to have a gun and not to need one.

Yes I do know your area, GTO. When I was there, Fremont was on the end of the BART line. I guess you would take the Nimitz south from Oakland to drive there. Wasn't that the highway damaged by the Oct-18th 1989 quake? I have been to Oakland, and I guess that's one of the problem areas to which you refer. My ex-girlfriend's sister lives there, in an apt. overlooking Lake Merritt. Parts of Oakland are actually quite nice.

You are a family man?  I wouldn't have thought that GTO was a family car. But perhaps you have another car. I have two cars, both of them German.  

[lazs2]

beetle... I can't recall you ever giving me a hard time.  I recall you trying tho.    I also have a quite different view of what "substantiate" means when it comes to you.   I don't really see you substantiate anything any more than anyone else.

I have no doubt  been to more cities in the U.S. than you have.  

have guns or don't have em... I give you the choice.    

I live in a nice enough area but.... section 8 housing and a government policy that says.... come here and we will quadruple your income and allow you to sit in one of our homes all day and do nothing... all you have to do is sneak in.

Well... with such policies there is no neighborhood that is safe save a gated one that has bodyguards.  

Why do you fear law abiding citizens with firearms mister "sustantiate" ?   Since said citizens prevent more than 1,000,000 crimes a year using said firearms... what statistic would lead you to believe that taking guns out of the hands of the ordinary citizen would be a good thing?
lazs

[beet1e]

Lazs

Why do you fear law abiding citizens with firearms mister "sustantiate" ? Since said citizens prevent more than 1,000,000 crimes a year using said firearms... what statistic would lead you to believe that taking guns out of the hands of the ordinary citizen would be a good thing?

Well, put like that it sounds silly. What I would like is to be able to command guns out of existence. But we can't do that. So the USA has fallen victim to its policy of allowing the ordinary citizen to bear arms. And owing to impotent gun control laws, many criminals have guns. I'm not saying Britain is immune to it. We are going the same way and one wonders how long it will be before the British bobby is armed as a matter of course.

I've been reading that .PDF a bit more, and the answers to GTO's question are on p15. I will reproduce part of it here for convenience.

[Sandman]

Oh... I get it...

Regardless of what the media would have us believe... homicides are on the decline in this country.

[GtoRA2]

See we can have a discussion without calling each other names or making noodle jokes.

Oakland has some good places, true, but do not get lost in the bad areas.

There is also East Palo alto. But the it has calmed a bit now.

Hayward is not great and going down hill. and San Jose has some very bad places.

With a glance at the numbers in your acrobat file, it does show murder, without guns. That is my point.  

You also can take English culture and compare it very well to U.S. culture.

The U.S. was made with the gun, we fought off our colonial controllers with them.

We tamed a vast area of land with guns. Without them it could not have been done.

The whole wild west thing is all about guns.

The people of the U.S. for the most part like them or at least tolerate them. I am not sure on the numbers but like 1 in every 3 houses has at least one gun.


They are just part of being a U.S. citizen.

Answer this. Why is it bad for me to own a gun. The odds of my gun hurting anyone is VERY low. Why do you want to take away my hobby?

Have you ever shot one? It is a pretty fun thing to do.

Oh and the GTO could be a family car it does fit 4 people well.  

I own a 2002 full-size Chevy truck and a 2000 Jeep.  I drive the Jeep the most. Since the woman claimed the truck.

[mauser]

What about Olympic Biathletes?  Ski to get the heart pumping, then attempt to calm down and shoot a .22 at a little disk, then repeat all over again.  Or other "paper punchers?"  Are these folks dangerous and evil also because they enjoy shooting or "worship firearms?"  

I made a post here a long while ago about how owning a gun shouldn't make other people look at you funny.  If I had one of these (I would love to someday, but they are $$$):

http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/pm/main.php?kid=6&l=d

would I have an inadequate personality?  Pls think it over before you make generalizations.   A gun does not magically transform you into a psycho killer, much less a bully.  

Btw, all I own for now is this:

http://www.samicksports.com/e_products_progress_1.htm

but everytime I read about the high school smallbore matches we have here in Hawaii (that's where I started with firearms - and no we didn't turn out any violent killers in my class either) I get the urge to get the former and pick the sport up again.  

mauser

[beet1e]

GTO

See we can have a discussion without calling each other names or making noodle jokes.

Of course we can. I don't know you very well, and that shiver remark in your sig. made you sound like a salamander. Please change it.

With a glance at the numbers in your acrobat file, it does show murder, without guns. That is my point.

The stats show that 765 people were murdered in England & Wales in 1999. The figure for the USA is about 20 times that. Your population is about 4 times the size of ours, so you have about 5 times the murder rate than we do.  I can dig out some stats if you insist, but I think the majority of the 15,000+ people murdered in the USA in 1999 would have been killed by handguns. Let me ask you a question: If you wanted to kill someone, how would you do it?  A gun is the obvious choice. I remember reading that in 1980 there were more than 10,000 handgun deaths in the US. I'm not saying it's bad for you personally to have a gun, but you must answer another question: How did so many guns get into the wrong hands? I suspect that it's because of ineffective gun control laws, inadequate background checks, and guns which once were legally owned - like yours - being stolen and getting into the hands of criminals.  If I am wrong, please enlighten me!

[GtoRA2]

I changed my sig back lol gues the bait got stinky!

Hmm what's to keep my gun from being stolen? I keep it locked up and hidden, I am sure a burglar could find it if he tried hard enough but, the neighbors are pretty watchful now.

I will be getting a gun safe that will bolt to the wall and will not be mobile or open able in the near future.

How do guns get into the hands of criminals? Theft, unscrupulous dealers(they just changed the laws for federal fire arms dealer permits I think to make this harder? Someone else might know more about it)

Some prolly come over the border illegally.

There will be a huge market for guns from Mexico if they ever do get banned.

I am all for background checks that work. I am all for mandatory safety classes.  I am all for very strict laws if you use a gun in crime.

But to take them away, will just make people like me criminals. It will also cause huge problems with enforcement. We are already wasting huge amounts of money on the stupid war on drug, we do not need a war on guns.

My only point about the murders is people will find a way to kill one another.

If I wanted to murder someone and not get caught I would take a good knife and sneak into their house and kill them in their sleep, hell if you where good you prolly could get the whole family and get out without anyone knowing...  

Sure a gun is easy, but murder is murder, I would bet, you take guns away in the U.S. crime goes up and murder only goes down a little bit.

[Fatty]

People from Europe and even most people from the urban United States fail to really comprehend the vastness of rural America.  When I was a kid I could grab the shotgun, head off the back porch, and spend the next two days in the woods.  Sometimes call the neighbor's son and see if he wanted to walk the mile to meet halfway.  You have public lands that would be overrun with dying animals if there were not yearly hunts to thin them.  You might have a officer or two less than an hour's drive away (a police station near where I grew up made news as the smallest in the nation.  It was a phone booth that the policeman would park his car next to in case it rang).

Then you will see someone on TV saying there is no need for a gun in the house with the current availability of security systems?  The provincial ignorance in a statement such as that goes beyond any trailer park joke I have ever heard.  It's also why the rural poor feel deserted by the democratic party (unless you buy the argument that everyone between Philadelphia and Los Angeles are filthy rich vacation homes).

[john9001]

Ananova:  
 
Public feels street crime is worsening - survey

The majority of the public believe street crime has got worse despite the Government's claims it is tackling the problem.

A new survey shows 53% of people think street crime has worsened in the past six months.

This is despite the Government's disputed figures showing street crime in the country's 10 worst areas has dropped 14% in that time.

And most people also have little confidence the police will catch criminals, with many worried to leave home at night and most wanting courts to get tougher.

The ICM poll asked 1,009 people across the UK aged 14 and over for their attitudes on crime for a study commissioned by BBC1 for Cracking Crime, a day of programmes to be shown on Wednesday devoted to the issue.

The poll results show in the 10 targeted areas where police have been cracking down on street crime under orders from the Government, 7% say they or a member of their family had been mugged in the past 12 months.

The fear of crime was also significant, the poll shows. Almost a quarter, 24%, of those over 55 say they are too worried to leave their houses at night for fear of being mugged and 32% of parents of children aged ten to 16 say they are too worried to let them go out after dark.

On the police, 80% are not confident they would catch a burglar or car thief and 71% say the same about a mugger.

The public will be able to question the Home Secretary David Blunkett about the findings during a studio debate.


Story filed: 23:16 Tuesday 17th September 2002

 Related stories:
Parents more protective after Soham murders
00:04 Thursday 19th September 2002

Survey shows one child in five is crime victim
01:28 Monday 16th September 2002

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by mauser
What about Olympic Biathletes?  Ski to get the heart pumping, then attempt to calm down and shoot a .22 at a little disk, then repeat all over again.  Or other "paper punchers?"  Are these folks dangerous and evil also because they enjoy shooting or "worship firearms?"  

mauser

I heard that British Olympians (Pistol shooters especially) were required to cross the channel to practice in order to follow the law.  They may have made an exception by now...

[whgates3]

nice chart - from The Economist?
we're kicking Estonia's oscar
USA!
USA!
USA!

[Sandman]

Originally posted by john9001
Ananova:  
 
Public feels street crime is worsening - survey

The majority of the public believe street crime has got worse despite the Government's claims it is tackling the problem.

A new survey shows 53% of people think street crime has worsened in the past six months.

This is despite the Government's disputed figures showing street crime in the country's 10 worst areas has dropped 14% in that time.

And most people also have little confidence the police will catch criminals, with many worried to leave home at night and most wanting courts to get tougher.

You want to feel safe? Turn off the television. The networks peddle fear because it's good for advertising. You are the product that is being bought and sold by the networks and the marketing firms.

[whgates3]

not only that, but those surveys underestimate their error margins by orders of magnitude