Are you skilled - or just gaming the game?

[Puke]

Kind of a funny post, considering I sit at my desk in my comfy chair wearing a pink tutu and tiarra with a beer in one hand and interchanging between joystick and ham sandwich with the other hand while dogfighting what are at best "representations" of aircraft on this little screen in front of me.

I've actually played dodgeball with Midnight in the MA and lost every time and do not think anything wrong with that fighting style.  In fact, it's deadly and I admire his skill and wish I was better at that dodgeball game.  And I thought historically from day one, pilots strived for superior altitude and speed which culminated with the Korean War.  Historically, most who died never saw there opponent and thus you can then discern that most kills were not via wild dogfights.  To critique someone's killing style seems absurd.  I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.  This is a game for entertainment purposes.  If you get a thrill out of flying an LA7 on the deck (dweeb), go for it...and if you prefer to not get drawn in a tail-chase engagement but rather swoop in from the heavens after beating an opponent down with team-tactics, more power to you.  If you need to win by cutting the engine on and off, that is part of the physics of the MA universe.  Judging by the few aircraft most typically encountered in the MA, most are looking for any crutch they can to help them succeed and I wouldn't be surprised if there are other "tricks" in addition to the engine cut thing.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Oedipus
What Midnight just said, "Here's a post I yanked from the KOTH forum, ..." and the discussion in the KOTH topic.   It's 100% dead on IMO.

   

 And please stop comparing modern civil aircraft engines that have reliable built-in starters, electronic ignition and operate with 'point-click' ease with those from 60 years ago.

 Oed

Oed,

Electronic ignition is not the norm in GA aircraft. It is still undergoing a certification fight with the FAA and can only be installed on an existing airframe as either an experimental option or under an existing STC. Even the LASAR system uses a magneto. The "shower of sparks" idea is the old low tension magneto coupled with a coil at every cylinder. I have a 1939 engine maintenence manual that shows an inline engine with that type of system. Yep pretty cutting edge.

By and far, even in experimental aircraft the good old magneto is still being used. The same freaking starters are being used as well. Ever see a real aircraft starter???? The damn things are huge compared to auto starters. The major change is in battery charging where alternator conversions are pretty common. There are still quite a few birds out there with the old DC generators though. The new lighter "hitech" starters are simply ones using permanent magnets in the old design system that allows it to operate with lower voltage draw.

When it comes down to it, there is damn little in the way of wonder engines out there. The technology is STILL in the 40's and 50's. Don't believe it? Go ask a few A&P's about it. Talk to the older ones that have the experiance to know.

[viking73]

From Flight Journal "Flying the P-38"

Without much thought, I was entering his preferred combat maneuver; power up, I pictured a 109 on my tail and began an increasingly steep right-hand climbing turn. In turning and twisting with 109s and 190s, Dad never got a bullet hole in Tangerine, his P-38F. As the speed dropped below 150mph, I flipped the flap handle to the maneuver stop (which can be used up to 250mph) and steepened the turn. At this point, the 109 pilot, at full power with the right rudder all the way down, would have snap-rolled into a vicious stall if he had chosen to follow.I pulled the power back on the inside (right) engine, pushed the power up on the outside (left) engine, shoved right rudder pedal, and the Lightning smoothly swapped ends. Not only did it turn on a dime, but it actually rotated around its vertical axis as if spinning on a pole running through the top of the canopy and out the bottom of the cockpit. The maneuver was absolutely comfortable with no heavy G-loading. As the nose came through 180 degrees, I threw the flap lever back to full up, evened the throttles and headed downhill going through 300mph in less time than it takes to tell it. The 109 would have been a sitting duck.

cutting or reducing the throttle was a common tactic. Also, P-38's had a feather switch for use in one engine operations which would reduce the drag. So HTC actually has it right in regards to the speeds of engines off as opposed to idle.

[hblair]

Of course they wouldn't oedipus, they were in a slightly different situation. They couldn't just hop right back in the plane after they were killed. We can though. What's realistic about being able to replane after you just lost your life ?

When your life is at stake I would think you would fly a little more cautiously wouldn't you? Do you think tactics that were actually possible in rea life should be done away with in this game simply because they were too high a risk for a real life WWII pilot? You're for "dummying down" something that is possible simply because it was risky in real life?
What about goons wandering into enemy territory by themselves?
What about spit 109E's fighting ME262's in the same arena?
The list could go on and on. You guys just need to adapt. I know that's a tough pill to swallow, but the sooner the better.

[Rude]

Ya know, I've walked both paths in online sims and neither are right or wrong.

If Midnight wants to fly the Mustang as it was historically flown, more power to him and to those who don't like it, well, get over it.

The 13th TAS used to fly in this manner until we decided to improve our overall skill set....now we employ the style of flying which best suits the enviroment. It was our choice as a squad....trust me, the question never arose that golly, if we adapt a different fighting style, will others in the AH community approve? We could care less what others think...we are selfishly here to do one thing, kill lots of folks and do it together as a group of friends.

I guess the bottom line here, as far as I'm concerned, is that folks should fly in the way which makes their time spent online enjoyable.

As to killing engines and such, it doesn't bother me in the least.....It would sure be nice to blame someone or something else for me getting shot down. When I go down in flames, it's due to poor decision making on my part or just getting outsmarted and outflown by my adversaries.

No excuses from me or my squad.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Oedipus

 So should WB's ever get it's act together (very slim chance of that) or Target:Windbag actually releases something simulating anything you "gamers" might be able to have a party to celebrate ridding AH of me or other "simists' that leave.

  Oed

Good call.

[hblair]

Oedipus, exactly what difference is there in decceleration between cutting engine and throttling back? You don't know?

What of sitting your head on the dash for a six view? Ammo counters? etc. etc.

You don't even know if cutting engine even offers an advantage. So what's the point?

[hblair]

I don't care much about the ammo counters, dash head, etc. I realize there's gotta be concessions.

As for the engine cutting...

From what I've read it DOES appear to provide an advantage.

You admit you don't even know that there's an advantage. It's all hearsay and rumor. But you and others call it gamey. How do you know this isn't all a big joke?

[Fatty]

From what you've read where?  I've repeatedly asked for results of any testing in these various threads while sharing the results of mine, which indicate less drag when the engine is turned off than when the throttle is cut.

All I can conclude from the lack of it is that this is simply the latest red herring dangled around as the reason someone lost.

[hblair]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Oh, nevermind, it's not.

[Fatty]

You know I'll miss this excuse when it's gone, it really does grow on you.

[krazyhorse]

as far as engine cutting i havent tried it,i usually cut trhottle and salm the rudder and HOPE for an overshoot, hell half the time i end up dead.... as far as head veiws go, well i'm 6'1" tall are you saying i wouldn't sit higher in the cockpit than say a 5'6" man?? just mo