Author Topic: POLL: Hot Restarts for Engines (Read 1932 times)

Samiam · « **Reply #120 on:** October 23, 2002, 03:44:46 PM »

I think the (way) earlier comment about being able to take off your head and set it on the headrest looking backwards being a measure for gaminess is a good one.

Far more gamey than being able to chop and restart an engine is the ability for your advesary to fix their view at 6:00 and watch you close on them, being able to react at the exact opportune moment. Let's whine about that for a while.

It's almost as unrealistic as engine on-off, yet rather than being a rare practice in AH it's SOP.

I'm actually amazed at the ammount of bandwidth this engine on-off issue has gotten given it's relative insignificance.

Just enjoy the game, for heavens sake!

hblair · « **Reply #121 on:** October 23, 2002, 03:51:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Midnight

It's fugging lame.

When I went to Air Combat USA one of the first things the pilot told me was to leave the engine at full power once we got into the fight. When I started to loose the turn on the other guy in one of the fights, he didn't say "hey let's toggle the magnetos on and off so we can get position"

Believe it or not there Major, but not all ACM consists of making long sweeping E conserving turns at 20,000ft. There are things like rolling scissors where the whole freekin point is to get slower than the other guy! so you can push him out front (for gun solution), when you're 50 ft above the trees flying 130 mph and trying to get the other guy in front of you, things like dumping the flaps, throttling back, killing the engine momentarily, etc, etc, may or may not help in that situation. Of course you wouldn't know that because it's foreign to you.

You don't what you're talking about dude. But I'm sure you'd like to think you do.

Rude · « **Reply #122 on:** October 23, 2002, 04:07:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair
Getting my arse kicked by pilots I never heard of in duels is the best thing that ever happened to me. Ya see, it either challenges you to become more diverse and better or you can just blame it all on some "exploitation of the game". Thataway you can steenk and have a perfectly logical excuse for it!

HB......

If we lose the duel tonight, you had better believe I'll come up with one whopper of an excuse, because there is no way you will beat the 13th TAS straight up!

Midnight · « **Reply #123 on:** October 23, 2002, 04:07:59 PM »

Where do you come up with that crap?

I've been in plenty of low slow fights in my AH game playing days.

I know how to scissor and all the other moves too.

The point is, engine toggle is too gamey.

Matter of fact, I was in a scissor with another P-51 a couple nights ago. He started toggling the engine, and we were so close I could hear him doing it. I wasn't resorting to that tactic, so I extended out of the turn the next time I heard his engine shutdown.

I had the advantage at the start of the scissor, but couldn't hold it as long as he was gaming his engine. He died anyway, but it was lame even still.

---

screw it anyway. I am obviously not swaying public opinion nor that of the game develpoment department (Hitech). So I will just accept it and fly around the situation.

hblair · « **Reply #124 on:** October 23, 2002, 04:17:30 PM »

Whatever midnight. Engine toggle is gamey but nothing else is.

Lookin forward to it Rude.

Sometimes losing is the best medicine. I'm not above it. But when you're humble then rip the enemy a new one, you come out smelling like roses.

Widewing · « **Reply #125 on:** October 23, 2002, 04:24:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair

Believe it or not there Major, but not all ACM consists of making long sweeping E conserving turns at 20,000ft. There are things like rolling scissors where the whole freekin point is to get slower than the other guy! so you can push him out front (for gun solution), when you're 50 ft above the trees flying 130 mph and trying to get the other guy in front of you, things like dumping the flaps, throttling back, killing the engine momentarily, etc, etc, may or may not help in that situation. Of course you wouldn't know that because it's foreign to you.

You don't what you're talking about dude. But I'm sure you'd like to think you do.

This happened last night. I grabbed an SBD from a carrier and headed for a base we were trying to take. I loaded a 1,000 pounder, and climbed out to 10k. Arriving over the field I find about 15 enemy fighters milling around on the deck chasing a few of our's. So, I figured, "what the heck," and roll in the VH. My bomb drops the target and I zoom back up to 7k and start thinking about heading back when I spot a P-40E about 3k below me heading away from the field. I maneuver for position, but the P-40 driver sees me and decides to climb up and engage. Bad decision. Having killed any E he had, the Dauntless is all over him like a bad odor. He trys to run, but I have plenty of speed. In desperation, he begins to scissor. Second bad decision. I simply pull off some power and coast along, snapshooting him every time he crosses in front of me. Down to about 200 ft, trailing coolant and missing some vital aerodynamic surfaces, he cuts his engine. I could hear it. Well, I pull off the throttle and mapped to my throttle are the dive flaps, so I pop them too. If you have flown the SBD, you will know that it does not retain energy worth a fart. Therefore, chopping power slows you rapidly. Popping the dive flaps at the same time nearly stops you dead.

So, here we are a 80 mph. I have full control down to about 60 mph, but the P-40 is doomed. A wing drops and in he goes. Kaboom!

I have no idea what this guy was thinking. Trying to induce an overshoot of a plane that flies slower than a seagull is a remarkably silly notion. Would have worked against an La-7 tho...Lol

My regards,

Widewing

SirLoin · « **Reply #126 on:** October 24, 2002, 12:18:33 AM »

Originally posted by Midnight

"Hitech's comments alone seem to promote anything that is out of the norm to win."

YEah BabY!!!:p

Antaris · « **Reply #127 on:** October 24, 2002, 12:39:48 AM »

if u fly your plane realistically, u gain respect, if u fly like a gamer (which seems to be the worst of all AH insults) then that is the tag u earn.

Besides, several weeks ago my instructor killed my engine using the mixture, instant restart was regained for the windmilling prop when the mixture was enrichened
- maybe HTC should add a mixture control, if people really want to resort to engine cutting in knife fights

cheers

Fariz · « **Reply #128 on:** October 24, 2002, 01:09:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Midnight

So when can I expect to have a working K14 gunsight in my Mustang then, Hitech? It wold give me an advantage that my plane of choice actualy had. Or is it never going to be implemented because then there would be too many whines from the people who fly planes that didn't have computating gunsights?

You must be kidding. Who need computating gunsight in AH, when ranges to planes are provided by icons?

bloodstain · « **Reply #129 on:** October 24, 2002, 01:36:07 AM »

B dont need more complications inflight!

Fatty · « **Reply #130 on:** October 24, 2002, 11:14:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by HFMudd
Stupid question from a know nothing lame stick newb...

Has anyone done the following test yet? Let a plane reach max speed in level flight at 5K, chop the THROTTLE back all the way and go into a vertical climb, note the highest altitude reached. Now repeat the test but cut the engine instead of throttling back.

What's the result?

(I'm at work at the moment or would try this.)

Again, since my earlier looks at this are ignored because people are sure someone is using some quirk to beat them because it's simply not possible they just got beat...

I took a p51-d at 7500 feet to 300 IAS. To avoid variations because you're never going to get the exact vertical climb trying to repeat it manually, I set climb speed to 100 and turned on autoclimb.

With throttle chopped I reached 9570.
With engine turned off I reached 9650.

You guys need to find a new excuse, this one doesn't work.

Dago · « **Reply #131 on:** October 24, 2002, 12:31:50 PM »

Quote

several weeks ago my instructor killed my engine using the mixture, instant restart was regained for the windmilling prop when the mixture was enrichened

Time to maybe consider finding a new Instructor. A simulated engine out can be accomplished with the throttle avoiding any unnecessary risk.

dago

Maverick · « **Reply #132 on:** October 29, 2002, 03:45:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago

Time to maybe consider finding a new Instructor. A simulated engine out can be accomplished with the throttle avoiding any unnecessary risk.

dago

Dago,

There is a definate difference in glide between an idling engine and a dead engine. I found out when I had to do a deadstick landing in my bird and I do not mean online either. All flying is risk, it's better to be prepared than clueless about gliding in a real plane.

BNM · « **Reply #133 on:** October 29, 2002, 04:52:17 PM »

MrLars · « **Reply #134 on:** October 29, 2002, 05:25:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Midnight

Getting killed in a 1-v-1 against a guy using this tactic is the same as getting your bellybutton kicked in Tekken. You loose, not becuase the guy is a better fighter than you, but becuase he knew the 'double-fisted-backwards-catapult-flip' key press combination.

Yup, but in this case it's just....E....EE

Having instant full power when you hit the E key twice may be realistic but the associated explosion of unburnt fuel within the exhaust manafold and it's possible adverse effects being not modeled make this ploy usefull and effective without any possible negative ramifications for the gamerz.