Author Topic: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High (Read 6494 times)

Mitsu · « **Reply #165 on:** November 25, 2002, 02:32:47 AM »

I really hope Pyro releases "Ki" in V1.11...

oboe · « **Reply #166 on:** November 25, 2002, 06:16:32 AM »

Mitsu, I hope so too!

RatPenat · « **Reply #167 on:** November 25, 2002, 10:02:58 AM »

I wish they add too.

A Ki84 that is killed by a F4U that spiral climb him??? Maybe in reallife at AH sure is impossible with that stupid climb rate. Or ki84 will have 1.5ft/min climb rate at AH.

Kweassa · « **Reply #168 on:** November 25, 2002, 10:56:43 AM »

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I'm trying to decide whether or not the Ki-84 will be perked. It seems like the P-51D and the La-7 are the 'ceiling' for performance. Anything that matches and/or beats them in certain areas seems to be perked. Not even overall utility, in my opinion, or the Ta-152, Spit XIV, and F4U-4 wouldn't be perked.

Be interesting to see if the Ki-84 is introduced as a perk plane.

Indeed, Urchin!

I remember the exact same sort of discussion that started when Tac first posted his "UFO"

pics of the Spit14.

Generally, there is a basic "Golden Rule" of WWII fighter evolution that "maneuverability and speed is incompatible".

If a plane turns good, its slow. If a plane is fast, it turns bad. There are acceptable limitations on each aircraft which, by pure (and extremely lucky!) coincidence, very favorably balances a game depicting WWII combat. Since those two factors are usually incompatible in many planes, it tends to draw attention of pilots of different preferences.

However, like the Yak-9U, La-7, Spit14 and so on, there are rare cases of planes that the two traits are not incompatible, and it is these planes that usually bring out the "to perk, or not to perk" balance problems.

I guess we'll have to see if the Ki-84 becomes the new "N1K2" or "La-7" in the MA, but if I read the specs right - the Ki-84, which is mentioned to out-turn a Spit9, would be the fastest of the so-called "turner" category we've ever seen so far. It's top speed may not be anything special(at least not as fast as in US tests with US fuel, which recorded woppin' 427mph), but somehow I imagine it to be something like a La-5FN that turns like a Spit9, or N1K2 that is as fast as a La-5FN... and just thinking about a plane like that makes my skin crawl out of fear

Boy, and to think fighting P-38Ls in an E-disadvantage in a 109 is tough! In those situations, when in a 109, P-38s feel like fast Spitfires when they stick to your tail... Ki-84 is going to bring on a lot of pain!

....

If the Ki-84 is perked, so should the others be - Yak-9U, La-7, P-51D, Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9, N1K2-J... around 3~8 points. If these planes stay unperked, I guess there isn't any real basis behind perking the Ki-84.

ps) Bring on the Ki-84!!

With this baby, PTO setups in CT is gonna be really interesting

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #169 on:** November 25, 2002, 11:15:37 AM »

Yes, it can turn inside a Spit 9, but cannot hold E with any spit..eventually the skilled spit driver will kill him if the Ki is not careful.

IMHO, it should go as a free ride. It can definitely hang with an La-7 on deck, and will be an effective equalizer against them. It will be the second-fastest bird on the deck, and I'm only speaking foe the early version.

I'm looking for other stats tocompare with the La-7, no luck....

Gainsie

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #170 on:** November 25, 2002, 01:37:22 PM »

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Originally posted by Kaz
Yep thanks for your take on it Red Tail. Btw is that the u-4 or -1c? can't see the guns from that angle so how would the more knowledgeable tell them apart?
.

Sorry KAZ, I am a little slwo, and I misread your quote. The plane I posted is the F4U-4, not the F4U-1C. You can tell the F4U-4 from others by the 4-blade prop and the longer tail wheel assembly, given this picture. All other models had a shorter tail wheel assembly, the -1 being the shortest, then the -1D and -1C being slightly longer, but still shorter then the -4. This made takeoffs and landings easier, as well as increasing payload.

Also, the F4U-4's had the air intake below the cowl, which you can barely make out in the picture, and the exhaust is on the side of the cowl, not on the underside, in earlier models.

In flight, you can tell the -4 from others by the 1). paint scheme in AH; and 2). the fact she will boom and zoom the hell outta you!

Hope this helps

Gainsie

Rude · « **Reply #171 on:** November 25, 2002, 02:20:24 PM »

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Originally posted by llbm_MOL
At evey AH CON I have been to I have asked Pyro when we will get the Ki84. He keeps telling me its coming soon. Well I've been to three AH Cons and still no Ki84. Don't hold your breath.

Been missing this plane since I left WB's. If they make it as sweet as it was in WB's I will be in it everytime I go up.

LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where have you been LL....haven't seen you up in ages.

Karnak · « **Reply #172 on:** November 25, 2002, 11:01:50 PM »

Well, it seems that it has been 145 days since 1.10 came out. Only the gulf from 1.08 to 1.09 was longer, and that at 158 days.

So far there have only been four units announced for 1.11, the B5N "Kate", Me163, P-51D and Tiger I. Version 1.10, which came out 112 days after v1.09, brought nine aircraft (P-40B, P-40E, D3A1, SBD-5, Boston III, A-20G, A6M2, F4F-4, FM2) with it.

It seems to me that there are likely two, three or more unannounced units that will be coming in v.11.

I wonder what they are.

I sure know what I am hoping for.

Kweassa · « **Reply #173 on:** November 26, 2002, 01:43:25 AM »

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Yes, it can turn inside a Spit 9, but cannot hold E with any spit..eventually the skilled spit driver will kill him if the Ki is not careful.

IMHO, it should go as a free ride. It can definitely hang with an La-7 on deck, and will be an effective equalizer against them. It will be the second-fastest bird on the deck, and I'm only speaking foe the early version.

See, that's the part which worries me. Given the right circumstances even a P-47 can turn inside of a Spit9. I don't think the remarks on the turn performance of the Ki-84 was meant in that way.

Clearly the statement on the maneuverability of the Ki-84 seems to mean that its sustained turn rate matches or out does the Spit9. Usually this sort of comment on maneuverability would mean that the Ki-84 will 'hold E'(since planes with good turning ability can spend and manage E in a much efficient manner than bad turners, thus receiving an edge in a 'turn fight', which is in truth a horizantal E-fight) as well as a Spit9 in turns = winning turn fights.

..

If a plane at deck which is as fast, or faster than a La-5FN can win sustained turn fights against a Spit9... it's gonna be one helluva plane! The La-5FN is itself a damn good plane, probably the fastest plane excluding the 1944~45 monster planes. The only reason there aren't heaps of La-5FNs around is because there are already heaps of Typhoons, La-7s, P-51Ds and Bf109G-10s, Fw190D-9s around. While the low speed performance of the La-7 isn't anything special, if the Ki-84 is really like what we read, with a teeney bit of E advantage it will out run, catch up, out turn almost everything in the sky

...

However, even when there were records on Spit14 which noted its 'turning circle' was equal to Spit5s, in AH the huge torque which kicks in makes it incredibly difficult to just simply do the "pull the stick, point and fire" type of turn fights which earlier Spits are capable of doing. I am interested if this might be the case with the Ki-84 as well...

ps) this thread is going straight back to top! * punt *

Mitsu · « **Reply #174 on:** November 26, 2002, 02:36:43 AM »

Well said!

Kweassa · « **Reply #175 on:** November 26, 2002, 05:49:54 AM »

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Its limitations were poor accelleration....

This.. is another quote which makes me curious. From what I've read, the Ki-84 is supposed to have a thrust:weight ratio of 4 to 1, which is said to be evaluated as one of the fastest accelerating WWII fighters ever....

Not that I know anything about this. Maybe someone can clarify this?? What is the thrust:weight ratio comparing?? Engine power and absolute weight?? And if it is 4 to 1, is that really a terrific accelration ratio??

oboe · « **Reply #176 on:** November 26, 2002, 06:45:38 AM »

A lot of what has been said about the Ki.84's flight model makes me curious. Especially the part about running down anything and then outturning it after you caught it. I wonder if most people's expectations of its performance are tied to AW's Ki.84 flight model.

I Warbirds, you could not even run down a Corsair or P-51 with it, and you had to be very careful turning, or you would snap spin.
It may have been a monster in AW, but in WarBirds it was simply the best the Japanese had, but you had to know what you were doing to keep it in the air when flying hard.

I don't think it will dislodge the N1K2 as the premier Japanese dweeb ride. But there will be many pilots who take the time to become proficient in it.

I wonder if it's even going to be included in v1.11.

Shark88 · « **Reply #177 on:** November 26, 2002, 02:45:56 PM »

man that Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" is one tuff looking plane;)

Kaz · « **Reply #178 on:** November 26, 2002, 03:09:00 PM »

Sure it'll be in 1.11 (prays) it was fast and it could turn "well". As for out turning a spit9 I'd like to know if this was instantaneous or sustained as other people have brought up. Anyone have the data?

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #179 on:** November 26, 2002, 03:29:58 PM »

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Originally posted by Kaz
Sure it'll be in 1.11 (prays) it was fast and it could turn "well". As for out turning a spit9 I'd like to know if this was instantaneous or sustained as other people have brought up. Anyone have the data?

Sustained...at speeds under 240...or something like that...sorry for the bad reference...maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but I am flying on instruments here...