Draughts, floods and storms...oh my.

[Thrawn]

"Australia post driest months on record
Monday, November 4, 2002 Posted: 7:59 AM EST (1259 GMT)
SYDNEY, Australia (Reuters) -- Australia's drought has become the most severe for any seven-month period since records began more than 100 years ago, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology said on Friday.

In records going back to 1900, the April to October period this year ranked number one both in terms of landmass covered and the lack of rainfall, it said. "

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WEATHER/11/04/australia.drought.reut/index.html

And the march of global warming goes on.

My I'm full of good news lately.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Over the past 5 years it's been getting substantially warmer in the metro DC area....

This year, it's been colder than average and got much colder much earlier than it did just last year.....

Global warming, or a weather pattern that our instruments can not predict... take yer pick.
-SW

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Global warming, or a weather pattern that our instruments can not predict... take yer pick.
-SW

Possible.  And it's possible that the draughts in the Canadian and US mid-west and west coast are also anomilies.  It's also possible that the horrible flooding in the Manitoba previous to that was an anomily.  As well as the unprecidented flooding in Europe, Texas and the far east are an anomly.

Or it there could be something linking it, such as global warming.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Ice Age was preceeded by flooding....

The earth has it's natural weather patterns that we can not affect.

There's just as much proof that we are effecting the earth's weather as the earth is effecting it's own weather.
-SW

[Thrawn]

Well your government disagrees with you.

"What's Known for Certain?
Scientists know for certain that human activities are changing the composition of Earth's atmosphere. Increasing levels of greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide (CO2 ), in the atmosphere since pre-industrial times have been well documented. There is no doubt this atmospheric buildup of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is largely the result of human activities.

It's well accepted by scientists that greenhouse gases trap heat in the Earth's atmosphere and tend to warm the planet. By increasing the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, human activities are strengthening Earth's natural greenhouse effect. The key greenhouse gases emitted by human activities remain in the atmosphere for periods ranging from decades to centuries."

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/climateuncertainties.html

Do you want to see who else does?  Global warming is a fact.  Humans are affecting the surface temperature of this planet.

[Ripsnort]

I think mother natures had plenty of El Nino's, El Nina's, and global changes in her history...and I think its arrogant of humans to think that they alone could change weather patterns on earth with an entity as mighty as her.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
I think mother natures had plenty of El Nino's, El Nina's, and global changes in her history...and I think its arrogant of humans to think that they alone could change weather patterns on earth with an entity as mighty as her.

It might me arrogent, but it's been prove to the satisifaction of the vast majority of scientists and governments.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

I hear that a lot Thrawn... years later the whole thing changes again... temps go down, go up in other areas, droughts get real bad, then get better, flooding gets real bad, then gets better..

As for using your drought argument in the mid-west of the US...

There have been several severe droughts there in the course of US history...

Next thing you'll know, earthquakes are a result of too many overly flatulant overweight men and women and volcanos are the inner center of the earth suffering explosive diarhea.

I know all about the greenhouse gases, last time I heard anything about them... they were reduced drastically, both in the atmosphere and in output... well, for certain countries.. there's still a flotilla of third world countries without any pollution regulations....
-SW

[Wlfgng]

IMHO the cycles of hot, warm, ice, etc are typical of the Earth.

What is NOT typical is how fast we (humans) are making them happen.  

To think that we aren't affecting the planet is a joke.  The question is how much we're affecting it...

[Ripsnort]

Thrawn, one gem Wulfe had in his post: Your talking to the wrong market...go to India...they recently declined to change anything in accordance to some global environmental group.  The US as well as many of the Western countries lead the world in clean air/pollution polices.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Thrawn
"Australia post driest months on record
Monday, November 4, 2002 Posted: 7:59 AM EST (1259 GMT)
SYDNEY, Australia (Reuters) -- Australia's drought has become the most severe for any seven-month period since records began more than 100 years ago, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology said on Friday.

"Mad Max" with Mel Gibson was on television over the weekend - repeated a couple of times, too.  Coincidence?

[Thrawn]

Swulfe, Rip.

What the hell are you guys actually arguing here?

That chemsists can take a gas and not prove that it reflects heat?

That they can't correctly calculate how much of that gas is pumped into our atmosphere?

That they can't calulate how much of that is reabsorbed by plants etc. and how much is left sitting in our atmosphere?

That they can't test the atmosphere and see how much green house gas is actually present there?

Our is your entire agruement base on mushy warm feelings about mother eather and that it was warm in DC for four years and then got cold for one?

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Thrawn, one gem Wulfe had in his post: Your talking to the wrong market...go to India...they recently declined to change anything in accordance to some global environmental group.  The US as well as many of the Western countries lead the world in clean air/pollution polices.

So the Indian, Chinese, US and some Canadian provinical governments are a bunch of ultra melons.

I'm doing my bit to keep this community informed about the issue so if everything goes tits up, I don't feel guilty about not doing my bit to keep you jerks infomed.  Aren't I wonderful.  

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

The problem is that they are going we've got greenhouse gases, we can measure them, and we can tell you that at the very least they are destroying our atmosphere (points at newly divided ozone hole) and that they can guesstimate how much heat is retained versus how much they guesstimate should be let go.

That's all good and dandy... but when they start comparing that to our insignificant 100 (or less) years of recording weather and other planetary effects, then you get a bit skeptical when they say.. "this year is 1/8 of a degree warmer than last year"..

Yeah, the weather is f'ed up and a lot different... but the earth goes through cycles of that.

Personally, greenhouse gases ain't toejam... it's those damn toxins that are floating around sea level and make it damn near impossible to breath in big cities during the summer that are causing more of a problem than the 1/8th of a degree increase (that will be cut in half by next year's 1/16th of a degree decrease).
-SW

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
The problem is that they are going we've got greenhouse gases, we can measure them, and we can tell you that at the very least they are destroying our atmosphere (points at newly divided ozone hole) and that they can guesstimate how much heat is retained versus how much they guesstimate should be let go.

Swulfe, your ignorance on the subject is shouwing.  CFCs that destroye ozone and global warming are two seperate issues.

That's all good and dandy... but when they start comparing that to our insignificant 100 (or less) years of recording weather and other planetary effects, then you get a bit skeptical when they say.. "this year is 1/8 of a degree warmer than last year"..

Core samples of glacial ice that go back millenia show that the rate of warming that we are expriencing now has happen for eons.  

And yes air polution in general is crappy, but I don't see it as near the threat the global warming is.