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Author Topic: K-4 pls....  (Read 1872 times)

Offline GScholz

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2002, 10:09:21 AM »
Does our G10 have the "Galland Hood"?  I know some G10's had it, and the G14. It was standard on the K-series.
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Offline Urchin

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2002, 12:05:15 PM »
Our G-6 and G-10 have the "Erla Hood", which was 'standard' on G-6 and later I believe.  I think it was on some earlier ones, but it wasn't considered standard until the G-6.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2002, 02:28:06 PM »
Every G10 had the Erla haube, so did every G6/AS and G14/AS. The first Erla haube appeared on G6s in late43/early44. Galland panzer appeared sometime earlier in 43 and was initally used on the older framed canopy. Erla haube was not ever really considered standard on any regular (non-AS) G6, even the regular G14 sometimes had the older canopy.

BTW

Erla Haube = the actual clear vision canopy

Galland Panzer = bulletproof glass head/back armor
« Last Edit: November 08, 2002, 02:31:00 PM by GRUNHERZ »
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Offline OntosMk1

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Me-109K-4...
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2002, 02:58:53 PM »
cosmetic changes: Raised Cowling Line
                              Lengthened Spinner
                              Galland style Canopy

Control surface changes: Enlarged Tail assembly
                                         fully retractable tail wheel
                                         Modified Rudder

Armament changes :  30mm Mk-108 or 103
                                   15mm Mg 151

Power Planet changes: DB605B initially then went to the
                                      DB605 ASC or DB605 DC engines that
                                      rated 2,000 HP and had the GM-1 boost


Only until the K-6 was brought into service did they switch back to the original 13mm cowling guns. The K-6 also had an additional mounting of two Mk-103 30mm guns mounted in the wings. That brings gun load to 3x30mm and 2x13mm....gee can we say bomber destroyer?  ;)

This information was brought to you by the letter 2 and the number Z.....
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Offline Urchin

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2002, 03:24:51 PM »
All the books I have on the 109 say the K series had 2 13mm MG131s, just like the G series.  I don't even think there was room in the nose for 2 Mg151/15s, I could be wrong though.
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Offline Karnak

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2002, 04:44:54 PM »
The Bf109K-4 never (let me strongly ephasize the word "never") carried MG151/15s.  That was an author's mistake that has propagated out into a horde of other books.  If you look in any modern book that uses primary sources for data you will see that none of them mention the 15mm guns in the cowling.

Only trust books based on primary sources.
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Offline GScholz

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2002, 05:54:09 PM »
MG151/15 cowl guns are just a wet dream I'm afraid. The K6 did however have three MK108's as OntosMk1 said, but I would like the K4 with all the loadout options available, and increased high-speed handling.
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Offline whgates3

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2002, 06:59:56 PM »
...from what i've read the Karl-4 used the DB 605D which had an enlarged supercharger and so did not need GM-1 and was not fitted w/ it.  it did have MW-50
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Offline Vermillion

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2002, 08:52:49 PM »
Until the K6 was brought into service?!?!?!?!??! By service you mean the 3 prototypes that were completed? right.  Cause that is all the K6's that were ever made.

And NO 109 had the Mk103 cannon. period.

Jeez.  Grunherz and Karnak gave it to you guys straight.  The rest is just 109 devotee's wet dreams.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2002, 09:53:19 PM »
Yep guys K4 never had MG151 15mm cannon or MK103 cannon, please stop spreading this false information.

Every K4 had 2x13mm MG131 and and MK108 30mm.

Some Bf109 test mules might have had a Mk103. I strongly emphasize might because late in the war they did finally manage to redesign a new Mk103 barrel which would fit inside the DB605 driveshaft and I have no idea if any test examples were built, but they were trying to. But thats clearly just an academic point and in reality no Bf109 had Mk103 in service or combat or ever for any practical use.  

Verm I wasnt even aware there were 3 K6 built, all I ever see are just the wood wings lying around and photos of the new Mk108 fairings.  :)

I did read that one K14 was built and issued to a combat unit, this would have an interesting plane - DB605L and a four bladed prop, I bet it would have had dramatically improved climb and speed especially at higher alts.
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Offline Staga

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2002, 04:05:16 AM »
IF there would be enough room for MG151/15.... Why would anyone use MG151/15 when you could shove MG151/20 to same space?
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2002, 05:34:51 AM »
Balistics. For example the Do335 had a high velocity MK103 30mm and two MG151 15mm, the 15mm has a much higher muzzle velocity than the 20mm so it maches up better.
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Offline Staga

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2002, 06:42:21 AM »
Yeah I checked their numbers,  MG151/15 57g projectile 960metrs/sec... pretty impressive numbers when compared to M2 .50cal.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2002, 06:54:44 AM »
Yep.  The US came pretty close to dumping the Browning 50cal and adopting a near direct copy of the MG151 in .60cal (15.24mm), going so far as to build up huge ammo reserves for the new gun.
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Offline Vermillion

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2002, 03:10:23 PM »
Grunherz, to be honest I don't think any were built either.  But I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt in this case, because a very few sources quote a few finished aircraft. :)
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