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Author Topic: K-4 pls....  (Read 1972 times)

Offline BUG_EAF322

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2002, 07:53:46 PM »
me-109 nr. 5 ??



Noway u guys got enough 109's !!!


There only one plane really forgotten and we don't want it faster(dweebier).

Get us a new lightning
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2002, 08:10:29 PM »
We have in AH:

Bf109E4
Bf109F4
Bf109G2
Bf109G6
Bf109G10


So K4 would be #6 you ignorant bastige... :D
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Offline Buzzbait

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2002, 01:34:28 AM »
S!

Personally I  think we need a G6 with DB605AM engine more than we need the K4.  Would fill the gap between the early G6 we have, and the G10.  

This was the aircraft which was used during 'Big Week' and most of the big battles with the USAAF between October '43 and March '44.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2002, 04:10:47 AM »
Yes I think that too. We could just add MW50 to our current G6 and then add an earlier version with the older canopy.
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Offline GScholz

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2002, 09:51:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
me-109 nr. 5 ??



Noway u guys got enough 109's !!!


There only one plane really forgotten and we don't want it faster(dweebier).

Get us a new lightning


To this day the 109 is the most produced fighter ever. It deserves more models to better show the diversity of this A/C.
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline OntosMk1

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15mm cowel guns.....
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2002, 02:23:58 PM »
Gentelmen, "never" is a word that shouldnt be used unless your %100 sure that your right.  Let me blind you with the light of truth..... ;)

The source: The Great Book of World War Two Airplanes
Authors: Jeffery L. Ethel, Robert Grinsell, Roger Freeman, David A. Anderson, Fredrick A. Johnsen, Alex Vanags-Baginskis, and Robert C. Mikesh.

 from Bonanza Books

The Messerschmitt Bf-109 section is done by Author: Robert Grinsell.
  His list acknowledgements are:

Gerhard Barkhorn
Wilhelm Batz
Adolf Galland :eek:
Gunther Rall :eek:
Erich Hartmann :eek:
Dietrich HraBak
Messerschmitt-Boelkow-Blohm, G.m.b.H
The Royal Air Force
United States Air Force
and list goes on and on.....

Now for the information....
Bare with me here it might be a bit lengthy...

The intial production batch of K-series aircraft to be delivered consisted of both the Bf-109K-2 and the Bf-109K-4 model. Powered by either the DB 605 ASC or DB 605 DC engines rated at 2,000 hp and incorporating the GM-1 boost system, the K-2 and K-4 modifications noted for the pre-production aircraft and standardized on the 30mm NOSE CANNON IN COMBINATION WITH A PAIR OF 15mm MG 151 MACHINE-GUNS.:D The only difference in the two models was in the installation of a pressurized cockpit into the K-4 model.

   With deliveries of the Bf 109K-2 and K-4 beginning in October, 1944, Messerschmitt undertook a further refinement of the basic K-series airframe to be used as a high-altitude bomber-interceptor. The designationassigned to this aircraft wsa the Bf-109K-6. THE AIRCRAFT WAS SIMILAR TO THE K-4, BUT REVERTED BACK TO THE 13mm MG 131 FUSELAGE MOUNTED MACHINE-GUNS AND WAS FITTED WITH A OAIR OF 30MM MK-108 CANNONS IN THE WINGS FOR ADDED FIREPOWER.

   So, in hind sight, if the 109K-6 was similar to the K-4 but REVERTED back to the 13mm cowel guns. That would mean that the Me-109K-4 was armed with a Mk-108 or 103 30mm cannon and TWO 15mm MG151 mounted in the nose cowelings......;) :p :D
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Offline BUG_EAF322

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2002, 02:46:09 PM »
Quote
To this day the 109 is the most produced fighter ever. It deserves more models to better show the diversity of this A/C.


so what u think the lightning was ?

only 1 model  ?
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Offline butch2k

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2002, 03:50:44 PM »
Let's put this myth to rest once for all....





And don't trust this book too much, it relied too much on Green and nowarra's works to be reliable.
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Offline illo

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2002, 08:14:45 PM »
We need more versions of 190 such like 190A-2, 190A-6 and 190A-9.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2002, 08:54:06 PM »
Ontos!!!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Do you want to see pictures of the K protoype for gods sake? There were no 15mm MG151 on any Bf109K none, none.  Frankly I am gettting sick of this incessent stupidity that always keeps bring up this MG151 15mm BS. I dont know how this garbage got started or why it continues but it's simply false!
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Offline OntosMk1

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show me then....
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2002, 10:14:56 PM »
so your telling me both Adolf Galland, Eric Hartmann, and the Messerschmitt-Boelkow-Blohm company are wrong?


show me these, pics please....for i have several very good resources that say that the 109k-0 and 109K-4 where equiped with 15mm cowel guns along with 30mm cannon.
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TIGER, tiger, burning bright  
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2002, 10:54:06 PM »
Ok I'll get those pics scanned as soon as possible, I dont have a scanner so I will make trip down to Kinko's later tonite or in the morning.

In the meantime...

Show me any direct qoute of Adolf Galland where he says K4 has 15mm MG151.

Show me any direct quote  of Erich Hartmann where says K4 had 15mm MG151.

Show me any postwar MBB or wartime Messerschmitt AG techincal manual or design drawing featuring 15mm MG151 in the upper cowl of a K4, any K series or any Bf109 for that matter.
 
Certainly you must have have most dramatic evidence to back your claims, mind you claims that have been debunked by all serious modern LW researchers for several decades now.  

The 15mm MG151 in K4 myth is perhaps only outdone by the idiotic late war Panzergrau reappearence myth that pops up every so often...

So go, show me your dramatic evidence from your "several very good resources"....
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Offline J_A_B

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2002, 10:59:11 PM »
"Certainly you must have have more dramatic evidence to back your claims"

Heh heh.   He saw it in a book, it MUST be true!


J_A_B
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Offline Kweassa

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2002, 01:48:37 AM »
Didn't people trace back this problem to Mr. William Greene, where this whole thing started and then spread out from his mistake to all the other people's who used his work as reference?
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Offline butch2k

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2002, 03:46:04 AM »
I have spend a good lot of time in the past years squinting my eyes of barely readable microfilms, searching various archives, for my book on the 109, and not once i saw a reference to 15mm MG151 being mounted on the 109K cowling.
For once it could absolutly not fit there, just check the length of the weapon and compares it to the MG131, i hope you realize that the MG151/15 is nearly two meters long.
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