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Author Topic: K-4 pls....  (Read 1977 times)

Offline GScholz

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2002, 04:57:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
so what u think the lightning was ?

only 1 model  ?


I never said that. I want more models of all important A/C in AH (including the P38!), but I would like the 109 line extended even further. I don't expect HTC to make it a priority seeing we have 5 109's already, nor do I expect a new Lightning. I think HTC should consentrate on the Soviet planeset now, and after that the Japanese. BUT I WANT MY K4! ... eventually.
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Offline OntosMk1

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Christ in a bucket.....
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2002, 05:58:20 AM »
Man, if thought yall we're going to wig out I wouldve never replied to the thread.
The Books that im getting my info from are Janes Book of World War 2 Aircraft, Fighting Aircraft of the Luftwaffe, and The Great Book of World War 2 Aircraft. All of them say that the 109k-0 and K-4 were equpied with the MG 151s. To say that they were NEVER installed in the 109 airframe is simply ludicrous. How many of you have flown the Bf-109 series or helped design the A/C?
So we'll settle this once and for all.....The Bf-109K-4 didnt use the MG 151 or the Mk 108 guns.  So sit back have yourself a little party and dont forget to pat yourself on the back.
Also if the source that im reading from is a very reputable one and said source compares to others then why shouldnt I beleive it? Oh wait I know why....its becasue i dont know anything right?
See ya in the air gents....
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2002, 06:27:36 AM »
There is no way an MG151 could fit in the cowl of a Bf109. For gods sake. Take a look at this diagram of the armament of a Bf109. The engine cannon is a MG151/20 with identical dimensions to 15mm type, the cowl guns are MG131 13mm. Do you think that two MG151 would fit in the cowl above the engine?

BTW this is from an actual WW2 LW issued Bf109 pilots handbook, plese produce one featuring two MG151 in the cowl...
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2002, 06:32:44 AM »
It's a fact that K4 did not have MG151 in the cowl, deal with it!

However, and after your last bizzare post I dont even know why I should bother, I ask you what it will take from me or from the BBS in general to convince you of that fact?
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Offline Vermillion

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2002, 08:33:35 AM »
LOL! Grunherz

You remind me so much of myself.  When I started this many many many years ago, I was a HUGE German aircraft fan, and I still am, but just not on the boards.

Threads like this, and rabid "wonder wobble" fantics who insist on MG151/15's in 109K's, and "switchable" gun circuits 190s, and Mk103 30mm's in everything, just turned me totally off.

Give it a year or two, and I'll bet you'll even be changing your name ! ;)
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2002, 08:53:15 AM »
I try to help.. :D
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Offline thrila

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2002, 09:33:54 AM »
How about this-

The 109 k-4 or whatever model it is can have the fantasy twin 15mm and the spitfire IX can have it's fantasy 6 hispanos.:D

I wish my scanner was working, i would have scanned a photo of it.  6 hispanos....... anyone else got a pic of it?
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Offline udet

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2002, 11:50:24 AM »
I just love it when my posts spark controversy. My source was a book about WW2 aircraft by 2 Italian guys, I'm sure most of you have seen it at Barnes and Noble. I bought it 2 years ago, I think a new edition is out now, I wonder whether it has different info on the K-4.
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Offline OntosMk1

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Ok, one more question.....
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2002, 02:09:33 PM »
Ok, then answer me this please.  Where did this false information come from and why is it still being used?

Instead of beating me over the head with "Facts". How about educating me on why everyone thinks that the "early" K seried had MG 151s in them. I apologize if I offend anyone. I didnt expect all the Arrogant responces. I think one person mentioned something about an author printing false information on the 109 series but thats all I heard about it......:D
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Offline butch2k

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2002, 02:20:37 PM »
While doing my research i came upon a drawing showing the gun arrangement of the K-4. The print i got was barely readable when it came to the cowl mounted MGs and the 3 of the MG-131 could be read as either a 3 or a 5. So i'm quite sure that this document is the basis for all the misconception of the k-4 using MG-131.
And btw the drawing shows clearly MG-131s but not MG-151.
I'll try to find that document within my archives, but i think it was also published in some early 109 works.
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Offline HoHun

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Re: Ok, one more question.....
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2002, 03:01:19 PM »
Hi Ontos,

>Instead of beating me over the head with "Facts". How about educating me on why everyone thinks that the "early" K seried had MG 151s in them.

I guess this is a misconception stemming from the re-introduction of wing cannon that was planned for the Me 109K series.

There are drawings with the designation Me 109K-6 or K-8 which have MG151 wing guns. These were of 20 mm calibre, but in 1944 the 15 mm variant wasn't used any more, so the shorter designation was understood by everyone.

For example, there was a drawing dated 23.6.1944 labeled "BF 109 K8 1 Motor MK103 2 Flügel MK151". If you don't know German, you might think this was a Me 109 with an engine MK103 and two cowl MK151, but "Flügel" means "wing" so it's clear these were no cowl guns. (And as stated above, they weren't 15 mm either.)

Though it was planned to fit the Me 109K with wing guns from 1943 on and the Me 109K-6 with internal cannon was to replace the /R6 kits with underwing cannon, no series production of these aircraft actually took place.

The only series-production Messerschmitts after the Emil to feature internal wing guns were the Spanish variants, powered by Merlins and armed with Hispanos :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
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Offline gripen

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2002, 05:22:47 PM »
AFAIK this MG 151 cowl gun stories started when William Green wrote something about them. While I respect his works (well, some of them :) ), this appears to be a legend or missundertanding; so far no one has come out with verifyable evidence. IIRC Green was somekind of intelligence officer during war and after war he just happened to be in right place at right time when Air Ministry started to dump out unnecessary intelligence material. He collected van loads of material and this helped a lot when he started to write.

gripen
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Offline whgates3

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2002, 07:03:42 PM »
did any plane ever have synchronized MG151 15 or 20?
its my understanding that those weapons didn't lend themselves to synchronization
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Offline J_A_B

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K-4 pls....
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2002, 07:15:24 PM »
The FW-190's inboard cannons, which fire through the prop arc, are 151/20's

J_A_B
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Offline DB603

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Synced MG151/20's
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2002, 12:02:17 AM »
S!


 FW190A and D-series had synchronized inboard MG151/20. They were electrically fired and synced, hence the marking MG151/20E...
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