Author Topic: K-4 pls.... (Read 1860 times)

udet · « **on:** November 05, 2002, 07:33:53 PM »

Can we have the Me109 K-4? Even as a perk plane. It makes an excellen medium altitude fighter. 1 30mm cannon and 2 15mm cannons. Need to say more? It wouldn't be a new plane,just another version.

Urchin · « **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2002, 08:24:15 PM »

The 109K-4 did not have 15mm guns in the nose. It had regular old 13mm guns just like our G-10. Also, our G-10 is a K-4 in all but name.

Only difference I've heard might exist is the K-4 has some kind of tabs on the ailerons to make them work better at high speed, not sure if those are on our G-10.

NOD2000 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2002, 08:39:38 PM »

G-10 is basically a K-4............there wasn't much diffrence

J_A_B · « **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2002, 09:01:00 PM »

If we DID get a K-4, I'd hope we got one of the early models with the 426 MPH speed--this would fill a hole in the ME-109 planeset of AH.

J_A_B

udet · « **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2002, 09:41:08 PM »

The K-4 did have 30mm in the nose and 2 15mm cannons. Later versions got even more armamnet. It was capable of 727km/h at 6000m. Too lazy to convert now.

bioconscripter · « **Reply #5 on:** November 05, 2002, 10:10:21 PM »

Why is AH in mph? Whenever I fly I got no clue how fast I'm going. I don't think German and Russian planes had mph gauges.

And didn't the K-4 have some insane climb rate?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #6 on:** November 05, 2002, 10:39:17 PM »

The K4 did NOT have MG151 15mm cannon above the engine. No way! They had MG131 13mm MG just like every other Bf109 at the time.

The ailerons had flettner automatic assist tabs which helped deflect the control surfaces at high speeds, this would aleviate some of the Bf109s high speed roll difficulties which were largely attributed to high pilot stick forces.

There was no "early" 426mph K4, the 426mph figure is that of a G10 without using MW50.

Kweassa · « **Reply #7 on:** November 05, 2002, 11:43:27 PM »

Our Bf109G-10 is a hypothetical G-10 equipped with an engine that would bring out the best possible performance for 109s of these series - bringing it up on par with the K-4.

Therefore, to tell you the truth, our G-10 is a sort of a "what if" plane. There's no evidence of any sort to back up the existence of a Bf109G-10 performing as it does in AH.

If Allied fans would complain "it's unrealistic", the Luftwaffe fans really can't say much, because it is...

Therefore, with maybe the exception of little better roll rates and climb, if a K-4 is introduced, it would perform identical to the G-10.

My suggestion is, remodel the G-10 into a K-4, and give us a G-14 to fill the gap between the early G-6 and the K-4(formerly G-10).

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2002, 12:27:45 AM »

There certainly were Bf109G10 with DB605DCM engines, the exact same engine as in the K4. The G10 was a real mutt and had all sorts of engines from older DB605AS to the current production type DB605DCM. The idea was to rebuild older G series airframes and combat repaired examples bringing them up as close to possible to the K4 standard. Depending on what engine they used it was possible for it to have lower performannce to nearly identical K4 performance. Our just happends to have the K4 engine so has nearly identical K4 performance, at least in speed. So there our G10 is fully representative of the types in service, there is absolutely nothing hypothetical about it. It's very easy to spot a G10 with the DB605D engine because it would have chin bulges on the underside of the cowl.

J_A_B · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2002, 12:44:09 AM »

"There was no "early" 426mph K4, the 426mph figure is that of a G10 without using MW50."

Well technically there were "early" and "late" model 109K's as both "A" and "D" series DB605's were used at various times during the production run. You are correct though that the use of MW50 was probably a larger factor than the engine model although the exact engine model would also play a role. Regardless of what caused the different levels of performance, I'm sure you'd agree that we have little need for a fighter with the SAME performance of the 109 we already have.....something to plug the gap would be better.

And don't you wish you had a nickel for every time somebody brought up the 15mm gun thing?

J_A_B

Kweassa · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2002, 01:34:15 AM »

Not to diecredit you Grun, but I think the fastest G-10 record I've seen was about 430mph, simular to the P-51D. Is there any official record on the speed of G-10 with the DCM engine??

Buzzbait · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2002, 01:43:19 AM »

Salute

Actually I believe the real K4 would be quite a bit faster at S.L. than the G10 we have here.

Around 375mph

Speeds up high would be around the same.

Most common G10 did 428mph up high, around 365mph down low. Ours does 452mph up high like K4 did.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2002, 02:05:09 AM »

The 426mph figure is G10 without MW50.

Since every DB605D engined G10 had MW50 according to Prien/Rodieke we must assume the 426mph figure is for a G10 with a DB605AS.

DB605D G10s are gonna be as nearly as fast as a K4..

If we want a 430mph class Bf109 for a summer 1944 scenario we should ask for a G6/AS or G14/AS. These had the same engine as the G10/AS and would prolly do the 426mph figure and might weigh a bit less to boot helping manuverability.

DB603 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2002, 02:00:49 AM »

S!

According to IL-2 developer the Bf109K-4 was very much of different construction than any G-series. Structure was modified both externally and internally. I would like to see K-4 in AH since it would be better rolling than the G-series we have now because of the Flettner tabs. Bring on K-4!:D

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2002, 07:01:19 PM »

Its not all that radically different IIRC but a bunch of stuff was changed and many components fully relocated to different parts of the airframe, for example the radio, compass and oxygen bottles all come to mind.