That Old Debate- "plane" or "pilot"?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Innominate
Flying late war monsters is rewarded, while flying early war planes is punished.  It should be the other way around, at least for everything stat related.

Why pay attention to stats?  Just do the best you can.

I admit that I track my K/D ratio in certain aircraft, but part and parcel to that is my gestimated handicap for using that aircraft.

A Bf110C-4b has a very big handicap whereas an La-7 does not.

[Urchin]

 You fellas can laugh all you want, I could give two toejams what you think.  I hate to sound 'elitist', but the only people who's opinions I really give a toejam about are the ones who are as good or better than me.  It isn't a 'whine', it is a fact.  You take off in anything other than an la7, n1k, or Spit IX, and you voluntarily put yourself in a 'disadvantaged' situation.  I've honestly got no clue how good Animal, Fatty, or Innominate are.  I am fairly sure that in a 'similar' plane 1v1 co-alt merge, I'd win 100% against any of them.  Now there is 'luck', but there also really isnt luck.  You make your own luck.  If you opponent messes up, and you land a snapshot that hits his radiator, or fuel tank, or whatever, that isn't luck.

Now back to our friendly neighborhood FDBs...

It is a little interesting, at least I think.  What do some other people think about plane vs pilot?

If the 'plane' doesn't play a large role in a fight, why are certain planes far more popular than others?  Namely, the Spit IX, N1K2, La7, and P51D.  Why do so many people fly these if any old person in say, a 202, can be just as successful?

[SirLoin]

It's usually the pilot that whines.

[Innominate]

Originally posted by Karnak
Why pay attention to stats?  Just do the best you can.

With stats, there are four types of pilots:
Pilots who admit to watching thier stats.
Pilots who deny ever looking, but do it anyways.
And then there are the flat-out statpotatos.(Yea yea, guess which group I fall into.)

Look at the planes flown by the top 5 fighter ranked pilots, and look at the planes they fly.  With one exception, they all have half or more of thier fighter kills in a sub 20 eny plane.  

So I pose the question again,
Who deserves a better score, the pilot who can maintain a 1 to 1 ratio in a P-40B, or a 2 to 1 ratio in an la7?

[Fatty]

Nobody is questioning your excellence, Urchin.  It is well documented that any time you actually do die it's because of some inherent disadvantage, gamey dweeb, or game flaw.

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by Urchin
So... the very best pilots are the ones that never leave the ground?  I saw this, because if you are flying something other than an La-7, Spit IX, or N1K2, you are putting yourself in a 'disadvantaged' situation just by taking off.

This is why I have grown rather fond of the P51 (both D and B) as of late.  I have much more success in the MA with this aircraft.  Unless Im a complete moron and do something stupid, I wont get shot down.  La7's dont scare me in the slightest - Im just as fast, dont have cannon I need to lead with by 3 miles, and the 51 responds better to ACM than the La7 anyway.  I dont fear the N1k2 because I can disengage and reengage at will - the fight is on my terms.  

I only marginally fear the SpitIX - this AC is difficult to reverse in a co-E disadvantage situation, can outaccelerate my 51 (or so it seems) and is rather potent in terms of amarmament.  Any pilot can use the Spitfire to fly well against anything else.  Its got great speed, excellent manuverability, and great guns.  While the N1k has great guns and manuverability (not to mention certain "helocopter qualities") its slow.  And where the La7 has excellent speed... thats really all it has.  Unless your a HO dweeb, its difficult for an La7 to line up a bead - in addition, its not the most manuverable AC in the game.

The Spitfire, while bested in individual categories by the N1k and La7, respectively, is a much more effecient all around fighter - its has no serious weakness except its soft airframe - but good luck getting behind it.  

Mazz has 22 Kills of N1K2 and 1 Deaths by N1K2

Mazz has 17 Kills of La-7 and 2 Deaths by La-7

Mazz has 28 Kills of Spitfire MkIX and 2 Deaths by Spitfire MkIX

Either way, you fly smart and you can reduce the effectiveness of any aircraft in the arena.  

[Urchin]

Originally posted by Fatty
Nobody is questioning your excellence, Urchin.  It is well documented that any time you actually do die it's because of some inherent disadvantage, gamey dweeb, or game flaw.

Screw it.  Thought better of it.  

Thats what I love about the FDB's though.  They can't put up, yet they absolutely refuse to shut up.

[Vulcan]

Drama queen alert!

Comon Urchin, you're a prima dona. Admit it. Especially after that hissy fit yesterday practically demanding I not fly the Dora as a B'n'Zer vs your La7.

And in answer to your question at the top, its the pilot AND the plane. Most people have a flying style, match it to certain planes and they rock, match it to the wrong place and they suck. For example, me, I'm a b'n'z'er - take me away from a speedster and I struggle to not stick stir.

p.s. you should wear glittery dresses, you'd stand out more that way

[Fatty]

Don't hold back, let it all out.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Animal
So this is what it sounds like... when dorks whine.

inspiration!!

When Dorks Whine

Dig if you will the squeakers
Engaged in whineage on the BBS
The foam of their rants cover us
Can you my friend
Can you picture this?
Scream all you want of a dorktard
A bandwidth of waste in bloom
Animal strikes righteous poses
He sneers at the heat
The heat between dorks and tards
How can Skuzzy leave this standing?
Among a board so cold? (so cold)
Maybe we're just too demeaning
Myabe just like Air warrior, too bold?
Maybe they're just like war birdies
Cheese never gratified (cheese never gratified)
Why do they fling dung at each other?
This is what it sounds like, when dorks whine
Touch if you will on Flight Models
See how the board trembles with snide
Don't make Skuzzy lock you
There's too much fun inside
How could you leave us just hanging
Among a board so cold? (so cold)
Maybe we're just too demeaning
Myabe just like Air warrior, too bold?
Maybe they're just like war birdies
Cheese never gratified (cheese never gratified)
Why do they fling dung at each other?
This is what it sounds like, when dorks whine (when dorks whine, dorks whine)
Dorklings don't whine, don't whine, don't whine.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Innominate
Flying late war monsters is rewarded, while flying early war planes is punished.  

make up your mind.  you get rewarded by flying early planes for the perks they allow you to earn for the ultimate late war monster.

you get punished flying late war semi-monsters by ttaking longer, much longer, to earn the perkies for that uber-bird.

as for "score/stats"  a kill is a kill, regardless of who what how.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Innominate
With stats, there are four types of pilots:

Look at the planes flown by the top 5 fighter ranked pilots, and look at the planes they fly.  With one exception, they all have half or more of thier fighter kills in a sub 20 eny plane.  

So I pose the question again,
Who deserves a better score, the pilot who can maintain a 1 to 1 ratio in a P-40B, or a 2 to 1 ratio in an la7?

what a surprise coming from such a stat-potato - i only counted 3 types, not 4...  

rank has nothing to do with ones skill in some plane... plenty of both high and low "ranked" fighter dudes can do quite well in whatever plane they want to fly. maybe it's just a personal choice for personal reasons? yanno, that "$15 buck a month -  you pay it you tell me what/how/where to fly thing?"

for score, a kill is a kill.  for perkie-whoring, *what* you fly determines how many you earn. for general MA play, i'd consider the pilot being most "effective" as being more "deserving" of a
higher score/rank.  argue that if you will, but that's exactly how it's determined.

how about this scenario for you to chew on - who's more deserving:

the p40 1:1 who gets his kills by cherrypicking and/or hanging out near friendly hordes and acks.

or the la7 driver who wanders off away from the crowd, flys low, alone, and consistently manages a 2:1 from an alt/numbers disadvantage?

see?  it's all subjective, which is why the tack you're taking is totally self-serving and pointless.

[Urchin]

I'll toss out these examples.  Surely someone in the FDBs can point out how to win these matchups.  All fights are co-alt, head-on merges.  

You are in a F6F, enemy is in a Spit IX.  What do you do to win this fight?  

You are in a 190D9, enemy is in a La7.  What do you do to win this fight?

You are in a 109G2, enemy is in a N1K2.  What do you do to win this fight?

You are in a 110G2, enemy is in a P-51D.  What do you do to win this fight?

By winning, I mean actually shooting down the enemy plane.  You can draw on your 'expertise' as 'pilots' to tell the average MA pilot how to kill the enemy in this situation.  Don't hold back now, all you have to do is talk about it, not actually do it, so you should be alright.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Urchin
I'll toss out these examples.  Surely someone in the FDBs can point out how to win these matchups.  All fights are co-alt, head-on merges.  

You are in a F6F, enemy is in a Spit IX.  What do you do to win this fight?  

You are in a 190D9, enemy is in a La7.  What do you do to win this fight?

You are in a 109G2, enemy is in a N1K2.  What do you do to win this fight?

You are in a 110G2, enemy is in a P-51D.  What do you do to win this fight?

By winning, I mean actually shooting down the enemy plane.  You can draw on your 'expertise' as 'pilots' to tell the average MA pilot how to kill the enemy in this situation.  Don't hold back now, all you have to do is talk about it, not actually do it, so you should be alright.

i'll take a stab at the typical ways to win each engagement.

1. run to friends.
2. run to friends.
3. run to friends.
4. run to friends.

I'm an MAster of tactics!!

[icemaw]

Originally posted by Shane
when someone shoots me down, it's the plane.

when i shoot someone down it's the pilot.

how can it get any more clear than that?

 lol classic shane:p