"N. Korea claims nuke"

[Boroda]

Originally posted by lazs2
actually baroda... communists, socialists and facists are all my enemy.   I don't want them affecting my life.
lazs

I do not want anyone to interfere into my life.

[funkedup]

Naso, if it wasn't for US "taunting" with nuclear weapons, you'd probably be speaking Russian now.  
Not that there's anything wrong with speaking Russian, but I doubt life would have been fun for western Europe under Stalin's rule.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
It wasn't until the North Vietnamese overran the South Vietnamese that your version of "peace" could take place.

So you can say, "ours was a success"... but it wasn't, the vietcong had to invade, kill many south vietnamese, and then occupy.

Not to mention economic reconstruction of the country has proven difficult, to this day.

Lots of lives lost, over executions because they did not fit in with the communist way.

If you can call that a victory, then I guess mass-genocide is the answer to everything?
-SW

Hehe, American telling me about mass-genocide in Vietnam... Those B-52s burned over Hanoi and Haifon were just flying around dropping rose-leafs and having a good time.

SW, I asked you to compare Vietnam and Afghanistan. And you keep on telling me your "anticommunist" roadkill approved by party line. It's your right to believe in anything you are shown on TV and Hollywood movies.

People like you look like an "ideal" Soviet citizen back in the 50s-70s, who was supposed to believe any crap he was fed through the media.

I can't understand: do you really believe in what you say here, or you just have to say it, being too afraid to show that you disagree with the "official" point of view? I was stunned that during our conflict with iEN I recieved dozens of mails from people who were baiting me on AGW, where they told me they support our project and wish us luck, but simply can't say this in public and have to bash me and other FHR people on the forums.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Boroda, I do not compare Afghanistan and Vietnam because they are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT circumstances.

Sorry, I don't believe what I'm fed from the media.

FreeHost has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. I know of the evils of Communism. You may happily support a government system that will kill any dissentors.. I will happily fight that form of government.

I don't agree with my government on everything, and I probably never will... but atleast I can rally support for change.

Do that in Communism, you'll quickly find yourself dead.
-SW

[funkedup]

The only similarity between Afghanistan and Vietnam is that both were wars of aggression by communist regimes against their neighbors.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Boroda, I do not compare Afghanistan and Vietnam because they are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT circumstances.

Sorry, I don't believe what I'm fed from the media.

FreeHost has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. I know of the evils of Communism. You may happily support a government system that will kill any dissentors.. I will happily fight that form of government.

I don't agree with my government on everything, and I probably never will... but atleast I can rally support for change.

Do that in Communism, you'll quickly find yourself dead.
-SW

I mentioned FH only to show that sometimes you guys have to censor your behaviour and speak only according to the "party line" in public, exactly like most of the Soviet people before late-80s. That discovery was very disappointing for me. We still idealise American "freedom", regardless to the obvious fact that most of the Western values we tried to adopt in last 15 years turned out to be the same propaganda fiction and the same tool of mind-supression as Soviet clumsy and generally unprofessional propaganda (we didn't have such propaganda genius as dr. Goebbels). From what I see now I come to a conclusion that we have much more freedom now then you had until the fall of the USSR, and American society is copying the worst sides of Soviet system eagerly.

I keep telling you Soviet official POV only to show that the opposite opinion is possible and has the right to exist. The truth is somewhere in the middle. You have won the cold war, but it doesn't prove all the roadkill they feed us is true.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by funkedup
The only similarity between Afghanistan and Vietnam is that both were wars of aggression by communist regimes against their neighbors.

Yes, Tonkin bay was a clear act of agression against neighbours.

[funkedup]

Boroda, I'm one of the guys who emailed you in support of FH.  The FH censorship on AGW had nothing to do with politics.  It had to do with the fact that Argo was banning people (myself included) who mentioned Freebirds.  Argo was doing this because iEN had threatened to sue him if he didn't.  Argo was in no position (financially or otherwise) to defend himself from such a suit, so he complied, and made it impossible for anyone to agree with you on AGW.  His only other option was to shut down the board completely.  And I don't think an enterprise of dubious legal and moral value like Freebirds would have been worth shutting down the board completely.

[funkedup]

Originally posted by Boroda
Yes, Tonkin bay was a clear act of agression against neighbours.

LOL, true.
But it doesn't even slightly compare to the efforts of the USSR- and China-supported Viet Cong to destroy the lawful government of South Vietnam, or the invasion(s) of South Vietnam by the NVA.  USA and South Vietnam never invaded North Vietnam.  But USSR and China used their puppet-state to invade South Vietnam.

And don't start with the sob-stories about B-52's.  Atrocities by the VC and NVA against civilians in the South far outnumbered the casualties due to strategic bombing.  The USAF and USN went to great pains to avoid civilian casualties in the North.  They risked (and lost) many brave pilots' lives by conducting precision dive bombing strikes in lieu of carpet bombing.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Boroda, just so it's clear.. it isn't the Russian people I dislike.. it is the idealogy behind Communism. I was not raised in a Cold War society.. I was born and raised during a "relatively" peaceful time... There was no "evil Communism" mentioned in schools, or on the airwaves, atleast not that I paid attention to.

Which is what you should realise, I suffered through no propoganda indoctrination... I have formed my opinion of Communism through books, incidently not just "American" history books either... we do have books written by people of all nationalities in this country, and we are free to read them.

You're right, the Cold War was nothing but propoganda and lies.... but we should all be glad for that, or else we wouldn't be here having this discussion right now.
-SW

[Boroda]

Originally posted by funkedup
Boroda, I'm one of the guys who emailed you in support of FH.  The FH censorship on AGW had nothing to do with politics.  It had to do with the fact that Argo was banning people (myself included) who mentioned Freebirds.  Argo was doing this because iEN had threatened to sue him if he didn't.  Argo was in no position (financially or otherwise) to defend himself from such a suit, so he complied, and made it impossible for anyone to agree with you on AGW.

Funked, you know, +HT+ doesn't like what we have done, so I refrain from any mentioning FHR here, especially links that can lead to DLing our software. Sorry that I made you mention it here

Anyway, thank you for the info - I never thought they threatened to sue Argo In fact I was banned 20 minutes after I posted the famous "Letter to Russian Trade Representative in the US" on AGW, with edited personal information about mr. Roberts...

Later, in 2001, iEN wrote another slander to their local FBI office, so we had talks with Russian authorities and proved that there is no criminal act. The whole story from our side can be described as "detective comedy".

You were always friendly or at least neutral towards our project on AGW, but what surprised me was that many people who threw toejam and baited me there wrote me mails and said they beg my pardon but they have to act like that in public I doubt that iEN threatened to sue them for not showing righteous indignation.

If the state of affairs when some looney like Jay Littman or Hot$#it can sew a law-abiding person who simply says what he thinks is considered "civilised" and a "way to go" - I prefer to remain an Asian bolshevik barbarian.

Moderators, if you think I said too much here - please delete this post.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Boroda, just so it's clear.. it isn't the Russian people I dislike.. it is the idealogy behind Communism. I was not raised in a Cold War society.. I was born and raised during a "relatively" peaceful time... There was no "evil Communism" mentioned in schools, or on the airwaves, atleast not that I paid attention to.

Which is what you should realise, I suffered through no propoganda indoctrination... I have formed my opinion of Communism through books, incidently not just "American" history books either... we do have books written by people of all nationalities in this country, and we are free to read them.

You're right, the Cold War was nothing but propoganda and lies.... but we should all be glad for that, or else we wouldn't be here having this discussion right now.
-SW

Agreed.

Some corrections now

In USSR we had thousands of different books from Western authors printed in large numbers. Some of the books were absolutely anti-Soviet, no open slogans - but the idea was obvious for everyone. They all had a preface written by some party preachers - but who cared... Serious historical books were eagerly translated. It's funny, but I suddenly discovered that I can't find a Soviet book on WWII history in my Father's library other then memoirs...

You'll be surprised - but we had a normal society here, not much different from the West. Most of the differences can be explained by national charecter...

And there is another thing about Cold War that shouldn't be ignored - it stimulated technical progress. Without it we couldn't even have sattelites now.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

All wars tend to stimulate technology, but since the Cold War has been the longest running conflict (I say that because in the technical sense, it wasn't really a war) it had the longest running period of technological discovories and desire to get that technology right before the evil other side did. Evil is both sides, because to each other both sides were evil.

I didn't mean to say that you weren't free to read books by authors outside of your country or with anti-Soviet content... I meant to say that here in the US I am free to read what I wished, and I did.. so my opinion of Communism was based not upon what I was told, but what I have read from various sources.

It's just a shame that after the Cold War ended, the space race (atleast in the US) effectively ground to a halt. We still explore space and stuff, but not nearly at the rate we did when we had a reason to. If the Cold War had "peacefully" (no attacks or anything) lasted until now... I can't help but wonder where we'd be in space.
-SW

[weazel]

At least they kept tight security on their nukes and a short leash on the terrorists they sponsored.

The international scene has gone to hell in a hand basket since they fell apart.

We can thank RoNaLD RaYGunZ for it if current "conservative" information is believed.

 

[straffo]

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
EDIT: Nevermind, useless to discuss something with someone who is just going to call anyone from the US who doesn't hate their government "nationalistic and blind".
-SW

Why ?
it's not the case ?

Originally posted by funkedup
The only similarity between Afghanistan and Vietnam is that both were wars of aggression by communist regimes against their neighbors.

Rotflmao

It was just USSR and USA playground ... nothing more nothing less