LOL oh Castro, senile already?

[StSanta]

Wulfie, if Iraqi dictator, through one of his agencies, provided two disgruntled American citizens with, say, two tons of high explosives and the two citizens used it to kill a bunch of senators, would the US not say that Saddam wad responsible for the killings?

Osama Bin Laden didn't fly any planes into US buildings, yet he is held responsible for it.

If the CIA, which is a US agency, provided Cuban citizens with weapons that then were used in an assassination/assassination attempt, then they'd also be responsible unless you want double standards.

The US has tried to kill Castro - they've done so using foreign people true, but they have tried. they've not given it their best shot, but they HAVE tried, and failed.

[Dowding (Work)]

Santa - Castro isn't a hero to me. Far from it. He's an undemocratic dictator - but the US embargo is laughably hypocritical. Jesus, you only need to look at all the dodgy characters the US has flung weapons at to see it. The UK does the same, but at least it's consistent.

The US does arms deals with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, FFS - check out Amnesty International's dossier on them!

Frankly, the embargo is an historical throw-back. Let the green-backs flood in and Castro will be gone within a decade.

Personally, Santa, my politics are very similar to yours. I'm a moderate socialist who believes in personal responsibility and social justice. I balance can be struck between those seemingly diametrically opposed concepts, IMO.

I have an intense dislike for reactionaries.

Lift the embargo, make some money. Cuba libre, por favor!

[wulfie]

Santa,

There is a difference between citizens under the rule of a totalitarian state, where people are tortured and executed and have no protection from the government, attempting to overthrow their dictator with assistance from another Nation

*and*

A Nation supplying citizens of a democracy with weapons to attack and kill the *elected officials* of that democracy

Are you really telling me that there is no difference between Castro and your average U.S. senator in terms of good vs. evil, accountability (elected vs. took power via force of arms, murder, etc.), etc.?

Here's one immediate difference - if 2 disgruntled citizens for some reason decided to get rifles from Iraq (becuase they wouldn't need to get them from Iraq - the U.S.A. is a relatively free and open society - almost anyone can buy a hunting rifle) and they did kill some U.S. senators, they'd receive a trial according to laws that attempt to be fair and they'd be guranteed legal representation.

Reverse the situation and the 2 'shooters' would be tortured, then killed - most likely along with their families to 'set an example' (it's happened before).

And there is no comparison with the attacks of 9/11, or any terrorist attack vs. noncombatants and an intelligence agency arming 'dissidents' to overthrow a tyrant.

The terrorists are targeting innocents in an attempt to disrupt a self-ruled society that recognizes and respects the rule of law.

The dissidents are trying to make such a society take the place of a brutal dictatorship.

In effect you are telling me that the Allies plans to assassinate Hitler are no 'better' in terms of good vs. evil than the CIAs attempts to equip Cuban citizens to kill Castro.

Castro is an evil man. He has personally killed innocents. He has directly authorized the torture, killing, and repression of innocents.

Go ahead and smile over the failed attempts to kill Castro. Go to little Havana in Miami and tell the Cubans living there that fled Castro's rule that you are glad he's still alive. Video tape it and I'll pay you (or your next of kin most likely) $100.

Mike/wulfie

[StSanta]

Wulfie:

I simply go by the acts, not by the circumstances.

If A supplies B with weapons and C then says A is responsible for what B did, then so be it.

If the same happens once more, and C says B *isn't* responsible, then I call that double standards.

Other than that, agreed