Author Topic: As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.  (Read 1551 times)

Offline Turbot

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2002, 08:21:51 AM »
Haha a Knights numbers whine - (looks for old post consoling Rooks about how it was "your turn in bucket").    Working as designed, WTG HTC!

Offline EECGeek

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whining???????????
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2002, 08:24:30 AM »
Does the whining ever stop? Can't we all jujst get along?????

Offline gofaster

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2002, 08:43:50 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Beefcake the new perk balancing system has nothing to do with how many bases a country has but rather how many are flying for that country.  So you see it is working as advertised and not flawed.  If the Knitwits would get organized and capture a base instead of just de-acking it and vulching, then the Knitwits would win a reset or two.
Ack-Ack


Actually, we rolled an airbase and a port before I lost my UDP session for the 2nd time in less than 2 hours, and we did it with the standard gvs.  The improved Panzer model is a big improvement over the previous paper-thin Panzer armor.  I think the Panzer is finally modelled the way it should be.

Offline LePaul

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2002, 09:11:47 AM »
I can understand Perk Planes costing LESS for the country that is loosing.  I don't understand the perk costs RISING for the other countries.  For most, they are already prohibitively expensive...why exaggerate the price even higher?

Offline Kweassa

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2002, 10:07:56 AM »
To penalize them for not balancing the numbers.

 People won't care about the numbers if the prices they personally are involved with remain just "standard', whether or not other country gets them cheaper. "Hohum... so the other guys have the 262 at 130? Ah well, our 262 is still 200... not as cheap, but who cares? Nothing's changed for us!"

  However, the story's different if the prices rise for the mucho country. You are being penalized for being in the largest country. Not just prohibitive, but up to outrageously expensive levels, when numbers balance is really bad. "Holy crap, 400 points for a 262?? 120 for a Spit14?? How am I gonna ride this thing with any kind of comfort now?"

 Therefore, if one wants to stick with the hoarde, no problem. Pay the price for it... and expensive prices, too.

Offline Rotorian

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2002, 10:11:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Perfect balance would require a GM.


Wouldnt Dodge or Ford work?

:D

Offline Shiva

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2002, 11:03:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ET
Maybe the system should be based on bases owned instead of numbers on line. People on line does not reflect the action going on such as two teams piling on one with total numbers. But bases owned will help the country with the least amount of bases. Not much good having numbers when all your bases are being vulched or your hangers are dead.


Adjusting perk cost/award values as a balance tool is a good idea, but remember that it was just implemented; it's going to take HTC some time to accumulate enough statistics to find the best computation to get the balance they're looking for.

On the other hand, there are some fundamental problems with the way that it's implemented. Aircraft and GVs are fundamentally different; you can take off in a plane and fly several sectors to attack or defend if you need to (12-sector round trips being possible for the B-17 and Lancaster); GVs rarely will get more than a few miles from their spawn point, which functionally limits them to attacking an adjacent field, and the arrangement of vehicle spawn points can easily create situations where a country that is severely reduced in bases may have little or no ability to attack other fields with GVs.

What I propose is that the perk arrangement be split up. Perk awards for kills are always based on the ratio of player numbers in each country, as are perk costs for aircraft. Perk costs for vehicles are based on the ratio of bases held by each country. So a country that was getting gang-banged into a corner would be able to mount heavy GV assaults or defenses, but not handed the ability to overpower their opponents in the air.



Another suggestion, and one that I'm sure will generate a lot of arguing on both sides of the proposition, is to adjust perk cost not on the numbers of players in a country, but their success. When the arena resets, each country's perk multiplier is set to 1. When a country captures a field, its perk multiplier is raised; when a country loses a field, its perk multiplier is lowered.

This has the advantage that it inherently compensates for what is actually happening in the arena; if a country is getting gang-banged by both enemy countries and losing bases left and right, its perk costs will go down, even if it has more players (and if they're dweebish enough to be losing with a numerical advantage, they need all the help they can get), but if they get organized and start taking bases back, their perk costs will rise. This will have the consequence of making a country stiffer as it gets backed into a corner -- the more fields it loses, the lower its perk costs will be, and the more perked rides people are going to be taking up, but that advantage starts draining away as they push the attackers back.

The cost factors would probably need to be adjusted for each arena, so that the range of perk factors would be the same (say, 400% of normal if you had both enemy countries down to 4 fields, and 10% of normal if you were down to 4 fields), regardless of how many fields there were on a particular map (i.e., the increase/decrease per field on AKDesert would be smaller than for NDIsles, but the overall range would be the same).

Offline BigGun

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2002, 11:04:11 AM »
This whole concept revolves around idea that people care about perks and people would change sides because of perks.

I would venture to guess a great deal of pilots do not care about perks, ones who have been around a while probably have 1000s in the bank.

Also, I think great deal of pilots fly with a squad and are pretty loyal to a certain country & will not switch over do to silly perk points.

And besides, who uses perk planes as main tool to capture a base? Fairly simple to do without perk rides.

Remember, have fun. If perks are big motivator for you, then by all means switch sides.

Offline Mighty1

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2002, 11:14:06 AM »
The perk system was a bad idea from the start!

If you suck you will never get to fly all the AC/Vehicles.

If you have a life and can't spend 5 hours a day flying you have to wait a looong time to fly everything.

Plus if you were here in Beta you were able to keep all your points that you had Back when it was reeeeeal easy to game the game and get points.

And can you guess who really likes the Perk system?  The ones  I just mentioned because they have all the points they will ever need and they didn't have to work real hard to get them.


So here it is we don't all get to use the same AC/Vehicle but we still have to pay the same amount.
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.

Offline Pepe

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2002, 11:24:55 AM »
I'm quite happy with the perk system. Dunno if it would be possible to have it better, but I'm deeply convinced that having no perks would be much worse than what we have now.

On the "dynamic" perk system, I want to have a more extense track record to make an opinion about it, but I really appreciate the general idea. When you want to fly a perk plane, it's not only what it costs, but the chances and odds you face to take it back to hangar safe and more or less sound. If you are severely outnumbered, that chances are slim. I think it's only fair to decrease perk value in this case.

Cheers,

Offline Beefcake

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2002, 11:49:57 AM »
I will admit I did have alot of fun today driving a tiger for 32 perks a pop, but sadly it was short lived as after I logged on the knit numbers starting going up. I still think HTC needs to have the perk system based on country numbers AND the amount of bases the team has.

However, after the fun I had today I'm going to withdraw my above statment and give the system a few more weeks.
Retired Bomber Dweeb - 71 "Eagle" Squadron RAF

Offline Mighty1

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2002, 11:53:36 AM »
How long you been flying Oedipus?

How good of a pilot are you?

How long did it take you to get points?
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.

Offline Grizzly

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2002, 12:29:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Beefcake the new perk balancing system has nothing to do with how many bases a country has but rather how many are flying for that country.  So you see it is working as advertised and not flawed.  If the Knitwits would get organized and capture a base instead of just de-acking it and vulching, then the Knitwits would win a reset or two.


Ack-Ack


It isn't about vulching, although that is common to all countries. It's about wanting to fight with planes using ACM. Base grabbing is the antithesis of this.

Offline ccvi

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2002, 12:52:25 PM »
Way too much too read in this thread :p

The side balancing is nice, but it doesn't solve the problem at it's root. It doesn't matter if one country has a few players more or less (unless it's a large percentage more or less), but the real problem is when two countries stop fighting, gang banging the third. At even numbers this creates a 2 vs. 1 situation. Usually the gang banged country has lower numbers anyway, so it gets even worse.

Still, I like the new perk system. Better than without. For a two sided arena it would be perfect ;)

Offline Turbot

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As I feared, the fatal flaw in the new Perk system shows up.
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2002, 01:12:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ecliptik
Most people aren't regular GV drivers and so it takes quite a bit of time to build up even 50 vehicle points.


m3 resupply missions raise perks fast.