PBY (idea htc read)

[hyena426]

Do you believe that production numbers should be the governing factor in adding aircraft?

yes it should be,,from the most made to the least made,,why have a ww2 sim that doesnt have the most popular planes in ww2?,,just experimental hardly used air craft,.does that make sence?,,lol


no,,and i didnt say it did carry 6,000lb,,lol<~~who said that?,,heheh,,it carries 4000lb

Personally numbers mean jack all to me, but they seem to mean an awful lot to other people.

 well they should,,numbers won the war,,this is a ww2 sim,,and to truely get the feal of ww2,,it should have all the most produced and used planes that people would of really ran into,,,how many people ran into the emliy compared to the pby?,,,that is the issue,,what was really used the most,,and what wasnt,,,like the ar234,,gets lots of use in aces high,,but in real life did it?,,no it didnt,,lol,,its allmost like using fake planes,,hehehe,,,because people didnt run into a jet every time they took off in ww2,,its a fact that not every pilot in ww2 went aginst a 163 comet besides bombers in the end,,,,saying he111,,and pby,,liberator,,not in this game,,is kinda a shame,,,if they want ww2,,they have to start with real planes they used,,then break into experimental planes,,why are we going backwords? adding the experimental and hardly used planes before the more used ones?,,,thats all im saying,,numbers did count in ww2,,mite not in here,,but if they want ww2 sim,,they need to get all the most used planes in first right?

[Karnak]

Hyena,

Far more Tigercats and Bearcats were built during WWII than Emilies , but their usage was non-existant.

Which is more important?  The Emily or the Tigercat?



(You said the PBY carried as many bombs as the Ju88, roughly 6,000lbs)


Due to its perk status, I haven't seen an Ar234 in 6 months.  Frankly, it almost saw more monthly usage in WWII than it does in AH.

[bj229r]

I'd fly PBY a bit...(ok...my Dad flew em in Phillipines)...but ya'll are right..it would be akin to uppin a TBM from a land base....(why would ya possibly do that?)

[whgates3]

Sea planes could add a lot, on the right maps (esp. solomons & aleutians)...Rufe & CANT Airone would both be good to have also...was the Wild Catfish ever operational?

[BenDover]

The question should NOT be how many were made,
but,
Will it be used more than what else there is

[KBAR]

Stirred up alot of talk about the flying boats I see. I think they would be fun part to the game. If someone put there mind to it they could be used for all kind of purposes. Bump the PBY!

[KBAR]

PBY pic

[KBAR]

PBY

[KBAR]

pby model???  Black Cat for night missions.

[Karnak]

KBAR,

For the best flying boat thread that has ever been done on this BB, read this one: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60283

[KBAR]

VPB-33  SETS A RECORD
On the night of September 23, Lieutenant (j.g.) William B. ‘Wild Bill" Sumpter made three spectacular kills in one run. Searching the Davao Gulf on Mindanao, he discovered a large 10,000-ton Chitose-class seaplane carrier. Two destroyer escorts were refueling from the large vessel, one on each side. It was a Black Cat’s dream come true. Sumpter came in on the three helpless vessels at masthead level, releasing four bombs in a stick. The first struck a destroyer escort, the next two hit the tender, and the fourth exploded below decks in the other destroyer escort, causing three secondary blasts which threw the plane 200 feet in the air. Both escort vessels sank almost immediately. Sumpter then swung around and raked the tender with his guns. She was on fire and listing to one side, and the Cat pilot was determined to finish her off. After several strafing passes, the big ship rolled over on her side and settled in the water. Scratch three!"

VPB-33 lost a man that night when Lieutenant (j.g.) Robert W. Schuetz bombed a 10,000-ton transport at Toli Toli Bay, Celebes Island. As the Cat made its run on the ship, heavy gunfire hit the starboard propeller, blew two cylinders off the engine, and holed the wing. Schuetz hung on grimly and dropped his string of bombs, two of which struck the side of the big ship. As the plane passed overhead, however, gunfire ripped through the bottom, fatally wounding the navigator, Ensign LeRoy Flatau. The plane was shaking violently but Schuetz was able to climb to 2,000 feet where he shut down the gasping engine and feathered the prop. Ordering all unnecessary gear jettisoned, he flew the badly damaged Cat back to the tender, a distance of 550 miles on one engine. As Flip Anderson later pointed out, "we had no alternate bases to which we could return! It was the home tender or else!"

That same night, in Kolono Bay, Celebes Island Anderson hit a 10,500-ton tanker which caught fire, rolled over and sank. A gunner on another Cat operating in the same area was wounded during an attack which damaged a small freighter.

VPB-33 flew its last flights of this search-and-attack tour on the night of October 3-4. Lieutenant (j.g.) John Zubler’s aircraft was badly damaged, one crewman was killed and two others wounded during an attack on a 3,000-ton freighter. Zubler got off all his bombs, two of which hit the vessel amidships, but the cost had been high.

Wild Bill Sumpter was also out that last night. He and his crews had already sunk thirteen ships and damaged three others during the month of September and were looking for something to cap off their score. They found it in the northwest part of Celebes Island in Toli Toli Bay. That night the weather was clear as they flew along the coast with a large bright moon lighting their way. As they passed the entrance to the bay, they took a look inside and much to their surprise found two cruisers, a destroyer, and a destroyer escort lying at anchor there. All were darkened but the moon clearly illuminated them. Sumpter played it cool. Assuming that he had also been seen by the Japanese, he continued on past the mouth of the bay and then headed out to sea. There was no indication from the enemy ships that the Cat had been detected. About an hour later, Sumpter turned around and headed back. He radioed base advising them of his find and his intention to attack at 0100. If nothing was heard from the Cat thereafter, the people back at the tender would not have to guess what happened.

As they bore in on Toli Toli Bay, the pilot briefed his crew. They were going to make landfall some distance up the coast and skirt along the shore in an effort to mask their approach by the mountainous terrain. At the last minute, they would burst into the bay and hopefully catch the Japanese ships by surprise. No one was to open fire with the machine guns until Sumpter gave the word.

Everything went as planned until the final moments. The Cat approached from behind a hill at a thousand feet and Sumpter pushed the nose over about a mile and a half from one of the cruisers. But by this time they had been seen and when they were about a quarter of a mile from the drop, all four warships opened with heavy and light antiaircraft fire. It was like a thick wall which no airplane could possibly penetrate. Sumpter later observed that he could have lit a cigarette on the tracers – they were that close. Still, he held the Cat in its dive and continued his attack run down the centerline of the target ship (believed to have been a Katori-class cruiser). At 125 feet of altitude, he let go with his entire bomb load – no spacing. All of them landed on the unfortunate victim. The blast enveloped the aircraft and Sumpter thought they had been hit. But the aircraft still seemed to respond to his command. He dove for the water and headed for the entrance to the bay. Tracers and heavy gunfire continued to burst around the Cat as it skimmed the surface. Moments later it made a sharp turn, almost dipping a wing tip in the water, and ducked behind a point of land.

Checking the Cat over, Sumpter determined that it had not sustained any serious damage. He took up a position in the darkness just outside the bay and orbited while watching fires burn aboard the enemy vessel. Then, with weapons expended, he began the long flight back to the tender."

Wild Bill Sumpter’s spectacular pyrotechnic display was the icing on the cake for VPB-33. In fact, all the pilots and crewmen of that squadron had performed magnificently to amass a record of enemy tonnage sunk, destroyed, and damaged that no other Cat squadron was able to surpass. In the course of just over one month, forty-three ships totaling 103,500 tons had been sent to the bottom or otherwise destroyed. Twenty more adding up to 53,500 tons were severely damaged. A large number of miscellaneous vessels of various descriptions were also dispatched, although their tonnage is not included in the 157,000-ton total documented for this squadron during this period.

General MacArthur in a dispatch to the Seventh Fleet Commander Admiral Kinkaid praised the "recent magnificent performance" of the Black Cats. "No command in the war," he said, "has excelled the brilliance of their operations."

 (The above section of text was taken from "Black Cat Raiders of WWII" by Richard C. Knott, 1982)(now out of print)

[hyena426]

You said the PBY carried as many bombs as the Ju88, roughly 6,000lbs)

the late model ju88 ,,could carry 5,500lb,,,but it had 20mm cannon,,,,the ju88 they used on b.o.b 4,400lb bomb load about the same as a pby,,and had the tiny gun load,,,late ju88 had better bomb load and guns,,which is not the one we got in here,,lol

what do tigercats and bearcats have to do with pby's?,,they didnt even get used in ww2,,lol any plane that didnt see service in ww2 shouldnt be used in aces high,,plain and simple,,hehe,,a pby was used in ww2,,and used by alot of countries,,i would like to see all ww2 planes,,emily,,pby,,liberator,,he111,,do27,,,he177,,,some more jap planes,,italy,,russian,,all the main line planes,,but the Japanese didnt have many good big bombers,,,the betty was a fire hazard,,and i guess they were easy to knock down compared to the hk,,and emily was there biggest and best bomber,but wasnt many made,,kinda like a king tiger tank,,lol

so if you give japs there biggest plane,,are they going to give usa there biggest ww2 bomber?,,the b29?,,,i dout it,,because its unfair to the othere sides,,,well in real life,,it was the bomber of bombers in ww2,,and produced in good numbers and made the biggest impact of the pacific war

[bj229r]

The one downside to that fascinating story..as translated to AH..is that there werent any enemy fighters about--PBY could fly 16 hours at a time---and much of where it went was far out of reach of anything but cv planes---if ya 5 minutes out of some La7's reach in AH it a miracle

[brady]

The maisve target sise of the PBY and it's know vulnerabality coupled with it's comparatively weak defensive arament seriously slow speed and the simple fact that better choices exist imo render it a bad choice for adation. The Emily and the Coranado are in this catagory much better choices. Out of the two possable choices the Emily is the best because it would bring so much to AH and help the Japanese side, the US plane set is very fleshed out at present and does not want for much.

 I have 3 books on the PBY.

           The JU 88A4 we have could cary four 500KG and 20 50KG as modeled in AH, thats: 6,600 pounds.


 Ultimately it like most other plane choice debates boils down to wheatehr or not you happen to like a paticular plane or not rather than any logic behind that choice, clearly the case for the adation of the PBY is a love over logic issue, which I can understand howeaver I cant suport the adation of such a plane at present when logic dictates that their are better choices to fill that role.

     

 

[rogerdee]

well going for sea planes how about the short sunderland.
they were big had three gun turrets and some had up to eight machine guns firreforward to attack subermarines with

this would be a heaveiley armed plain and could also carry cargo