Author Topic: luffwobble abuse? (Read 10586 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #75 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:07:50 PM »

A little ribbing is fine, sure thats great and fun- bout not taken to a systematic extreme. But the luftwhiner thing has gone to far. Even Hitech realizes there is a problem, and thats saying a lot because I think hes pretty hands off guy who only intervenes when things are pretty bad.

And thats what I think is the difftence, and hope that we can both see that.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #76 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:09:46 PM »

Blind as to what funked? I think they are two stements there one generally about negativity on BBS and the second on why U think many LW guys are indeed upset.

Which one do you take issue with?

funkedup · « **Reply #77 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:18:00 PM »

The negativity is not a result of targeted attacks or whatever you said.

The negativity is a result of a long history of Luftwhiner attention potato posts. Guys who either make their complaints in a rude and agressive fashion, can't back up their complaints with facts, or claim that HTC are liars who are biased against LW, or any combination of the above. Those guys are tards and they deserve to get jumped on.

It's a few fanatics giving a bad name to the rest of the LW. I think it focuses on LW simply because (at least for US players) the type of guy who is a whining fanatical snob is more likely to be drawn to LW than to such dweebish and pedestrian sides as USAAF or USN or RAF. I've been there myself.
But like I said it's just a few guys, not the whole crowd. But those few guys give the rest of them a bad name, and create the knee jerk reaction by bulletin board vets.

But don't try to say that the whine-whiners created the bad name of the Luftwhiner and created the negativity. I've been on here since the beginning and it just didn't happen that way.

Kweassa · « **Reply #78 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:24:03 PM »

Quote

The only one crying about a conspiracy has been you...odd huh?

True, this thread begins with the discussion on widely recognized term "Luftwhiner". Grun argues that there is no reason to label a certain group devoted to certain planes, while there are equally as much other groups devoted to other planes who never had to go through the distasteful experience of getting a "xxx whiner" stamp engraved on their foreheads.

Grun is merely stating that this is not fair, and the stereotyping of "Luftwhiner" goes as far as to promote seriously offensive and hostile behavior towards the people the others have arbitrarily grouped into a category - "Luftwhiners".

And to that, hitech replies that Grun thinks that LW fans are mistreated because Grun believes the conspiracy. Wulfe digs up frustrated comments from past discussions and presents them as "evidence that Luftwaffe fans believe in the conspiracy theory".

So, who's really crying and emphasizing about a conspiracy here? It's really ironic because I've been accused of believing conspiracy theories, when I participated in a thread in the A/V forum and pointed out a certain tendency I noticed. Almost in the exact same words.

The words "conspiracy" and "Luftwhiners" are like the words "communism" and "communist". Somebody pops in and brings those words into a debate and lo and behold "this discussion is over". Reliving the '50s again.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #79 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:25:39 PM »

And that's a percieved conspiracy... but I guess you only read what you like and ignore everything else.

Unless of course I'm just imagining there is a an agrtessive atmosphere here attacking luftwhiners as you like to say.

Yeah, I say that all the time....

I have pointed out when people are luftwhining... "The D9's guns are porked" No proof, just assumptions... that's a whine, if you are up to it (seeing as you wouldn't in another thread), you can even do a search to find the threads I am referring to.

Then, do you remember me typing this:

I can't remember what thread it was in, but a while ago someone said that the majority of bugs on German aircraft were detrimental to performance bugs and that all bugs on allied planes made them better. Ignoring that both bugs got fixed when proven to be bugs.

Here's the thread I was talking about:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27858

By Hazed -
"please consider this,

LW issues i can think of off the top of my head:
the 190 engine bug (months of frustrating deaths),the 109 oil bug (annoying cut of the engine whilst every other plane seemed to fly forever with same damage), the 109 torque and E retention/zoom issue, now the 190a5 SL speed and hi alt climb performance,the 190 lack of full loadout options,the 190f8s lack of armour(it seems).
(please add any positive LW bugs you can think of...)

ALL of these issues/bugs/omissions meant that players flew their planes in the MA with the knowledge it was wrong which led to months of frustration.(P38 pilots can attest to this im sure with their need for dive flaps).Each time you died and these issues were involved (or NOT) you would damn the game for it whether it was fair or not.

other bugs/issues:

The p47 lack of weight issue, F4u4 lack of E loss in turns, the Nik E retention, the (argued) loadout mistakes(as in too much was enabled) on some allied aircraft,the seemingly indestructable La7 engine etc
(please add any negative bugs you can think of...)

ALL of these bugs/issues were in FAVOUR of the players that flew these aircraft.There was NO frustration in flying a plane with historically incorrect bugs, hell it even helped them."

He claims that this is not a conspiracy insinuation... but just what the hell is it? It's obviously split into German/Allied and one having more advantages than the other.

Here's another one:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=677300#post677300
Last page: Hazed, do you remember when 190A5 was introduced in AH? Several people posted here whining about its uberness, and it was tonedown at light speed.

But whatever, I'm sure becuase they were "frustrated" it's all good in your book.

Nevertheless, those are blatant insinuations that there is a bias/conspiracy in AH.

So there, I win.
-SW

hitech · « **Reply #80 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:29:06 PM »

Grunherz: You realy don't understand what I said. The Whine Police are not a problem against LuftWhiners, they are just a problem starting to evolve with all whines.

2nd you once again implied about me not choosing my words well in the past, and choose to solectivly quote me, by not quoting me correctly. I used 2 phrases whine police and luftwiners in my question about what should be done.Funny you not upset by the whine police. btw have you even tryied to answere what should be done?

HiTech

Kweassa · « **Reply #81 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:32:49 PM »

Quote

It's a few fanatics giving a bad name to the rest of the LW. I think it focuses on LW simply because (at least for US players) the type of guy who is a whining fanatical snob is more likely to be drawn to LW than to such dweebish and pedestrian sides as USAAF or USN or RAF. I've been there myself.
But like I said it's just a few guys, not the whole crowd. But those few guys give the rest of them a bad name, and create the knee jerk reaction by bulletin board vets.

But don't try to say that the whine-whiners created the bad name of the Luftwhiner and created the negativity. I've been on here since the beginning and it just didn't happen that way.

Sounds logical. And I believe you are right funked.

Like you have said, there is a "knee jerk reaction by bulletin board vets" just as much there are are "whining fanatical LW snobs". They both contribute to making the boards distasteful and hostile. People should acknowledge that.

And yet, the snobs and the non-snobs are categorized and grouped into a single category and treated as the same. Hitech mentions he doesn't see the difference between the two.

And that, is exactly why people are upset, and feel they are mistreated.

funkedup · « **Reply #82 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:36:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
And yet, the snobs and the non-snobs are categorized and grouped into a single category and treated as the same.

Yep that's what we have to avoid. People need to actually read the dang post before they go into attack mode. And when they attack, they need to be careful to attack the argument, not to attack the person.

Quote

Hitech mentions he doesn't see the difference between the two.

I didn't see him do that (will reread). Certainly I have seen him demonstrate in the past that he sees the distinction.

Toad · « **Reply #83 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:37:33 PM »

Yep, Funked, I think you pretty well nailed it.

Kweassa · « **Reply #84 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:46:41 PM »

Quote

The Whine Police are not a problem against LuftWhiners, they are just a problem starting to evolve with all whines.

"starting to evolve" is grossly understated words.

"Luftwhiners" and the whine police are the same sort of distasteful whiners which brings confusion, hostility, and malice in these boards. They should be acknowledged the same. They are both rude, aggressive, hostile, and unquitting and persistent.

It is they, who should be categorized into one category, not the plain simple people who ask questions about LW planes because they usually ride it.

In that sense they are both problems.

Just acknowledge that fact and I am very convinced nobody will ever, ever bring up that there is a "bias" existing in HTC.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #85 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:47:50 PM »

Wow SW. You chose the best examples for to support my argument.

The big black highleted one is surely a LW only argument when it mentions negative bugs in P47 and P38 that p38 and P47 drivers obviously complained about as well.. Biut no labeling of them.

And again SW you talk of Consipracy, there is none get over it- it's no longer clever -really.

Hitech:

I again refer you to what Kewassa said about your use of the word luftwhiner. I think Wilbus also polietly expanded on it.

And I dont tjink I ever quoted you, if you are reffrewring to the wilbus/luftwhinrer issue in my first post. I simply, ans we agrred, chose words badly.

I am surprised that you think your use of the word whine police is any way similiar to you saying luftwhiner. There is a history for that word for being used as an insult and to put people down and embarass them. Thins I think it clear to us all, it is no way similar to recent invention of whine police.

Also I maintain and think it's pretty obvious that people most severly attacjed on the BBS are the LW guys. There is not any regular daily type of thread that comes to mind where somebody is attacked just because they fly some planes and a negative attitude exists automatically no matter what the person is saying. Personally I got sick of posting perfectly reasonable question then getting back calls of luftwhiner, or conspiracy or here it goes again. I hate even more to ask people to please not attack me in the first line of many threads. And why? Because I knew from experience that I as LW type would be singled out as luftwhiner. So excuse me hitech but I see that is a particulary, though certainly not exclisivley, an issue thats targeted at the abuse of LW people. Whatever the intentions of the threadstarter were he sure didnt call it random BBS whiner abuse, and that says a lot.

hitech · « **Reply #86 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:55:39 PM »

What you fail to see, is almost all of us DO see the difference between LW and luftwiners.

HiTech

Kweassa · « **Reply #87 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:56:38 PM »

Woops, sorry funked.

Quote

. Hitech mentions he doesn't see the difference between the two.

This is my mistake. I misread. Sorry hitech, my fault.

I'll have to rephrase it.

"Hitech mentions he sees the difference between the two, and yet people are questioning if that is really the case. He's jumped on to the 'whines' he thinks it is unjust and makes snappy comments, and yet no measures, comments, opinions are ever directed against the 'whine police'. Some might see this as being unfair. Maybe in the developer's shoes, only the direct comments concerning the game/planes itself is of concern to you, and the 'whinings' itslef you don't care about. But it is prone to misinterpretation that you are siding with the whine police.

Yes, it's childish, but feelings get hurt because people misunderstand you. "

poopster · « **Reply #88 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:58:59 PM »

Grun take a breath and relax, your on burnout.

Wear your leather proud, fly'um, kick booty, have fun.

Luftwobbles is a nice club, I enjoyed my stay. It IS a club different from the rest. Spent 3 years in leather and it is different from the rest.

I burned out at WB but it was "game" burnout not a particular plane. 190's FM sucked there but it made no difference, I flew'um anyway cuz I loved them.

I was on total burnout, quit flyin, thought the passion was gone. It wasn't. LW planes here rock, but I did enough leather, trying blue

My particular brand of whine only comes out here when I see Domino's or Round Table all over my moniter

...but the textures have been softened, I no longer get headaches

Little victories, take them when you get them.

Want to see flames ??

Go here..

http://www.JG2.com

I'm surprised AGW wasn't burned down when an Allied CO posted that link. Thick of skin is a requirement, and a sense of humor goes along way

Made me laugh....but nat evvry von vound it vunny..

Leutnant nopoop
JG 2 'Richthofen'
( Retired )

hitech · « **Reply #89 on:** December 30, 2002, 08:00:36 PM »

Kweesa: Note my stating the whine police were a growing issue. Just happens that the luftwhiner is an older one.

btw you did have me confused before, on the me stating they were the same.

HiTech