Author Topic: Is this freedom? (Read 2997 times)

miko2d · « **Reply #15 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:21:00 AM »

AKIron: The freedom is to be able to enter any public place without having to breath a carcinogen.

Restaurant is not a public place - it's a private property.

Smoking is banned in public (collectivelly owned by whole scoiety) places like streets. In fact, as a result of the ban, dozens of people from bars now step out to smoke outside subjecting the pedestrians to noxious fumes.

miko

Wlfgng · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:26:05 AM »

actually our laws say a restaraunt IS a public place owned by a private person. big difference.
AND the law says no smoking INDOORS in a public place...outdoors is fine.

enclosed spaces with smoke.. yech
outdoors is bad enough but at least it gets dilluted quickly.

oh and you smokers would love the fact that a person can't smoke in their rental unit (employee housing) either

step outside in the cold to pollute your lungs

Airhead · « **Reply #17 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:36:29 AM »

Who cares if the sniveling, whiney New Yorkers have to quit blowing their foul second hand smoke in each others faces? As far as I'm concerned we need to make cigarettes even more deadly so that those people stupid enough to smoke will hurry up and die. The only law I would pass is that those people who die from smoking related illnesses be cremated instead of buried. Kinda poetic justice, in my opinion.

midnight Target · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:38:46 AM »

In Ca. the no smoking laws are based on workers comp.

If you have employees, you cannot allow smoking in the building. There is a bar here in town that is owned and run by a husband and wife. They have no employees and legally allow smoking in the bar.

Toad · « **Reply #19 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:38:51 AM »

I think it's like the freedom to wildly swing your fist around at the end of your arm.

That freedom stops just short of someone else's nose.

You're free to smoke. You're just not free to cause someone else to smoke your cig with you.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #20 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:43:45 AM »

nice analogy

fd ski · « **Reply #21 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:44:51 AM »

what happend to simple demand/supply rule of free markets ?

If there was such a demand for smoke free bars, then owners would themselves made them smoke-free.
If you don't like the smoke in bars - don't patron them !!! What a novel idea !!! Patron a smoke-free bar, and your patronage will lead to increased demand hence more smoke-free bars.

What happend to you folks advocating "stop to unnessesary laws" ?

Bloomberg on the other cracks me up. Sold himself to voters as businessman who can make the city run. Up till now he's been chasing puritan dreams and budget is going to crap

Mirge · « **Reply #22 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:48:01 AM »

i live in LA and ive seen ppl smoke in bars ..i have smoked in a bar although i dont smoke it was just for kicks. im a criminal add me to the % of drug related crimes committed in 2002 so we can have even more police to clean up the streets.

Curval · « **Reply #23 on:** December 31, 2002, 10:54:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
I think it's like the freedom to wildly swing your fist around at the end of your arm.

That freedom stops just short of someone else's nose.

You're free to smoke. You're just not free to cause someone else to smoke your cig with you.

Yea, yea...but Toad you are missing the point. The fact is that you yourself have advocated that the British government should ban knives...because they are so deadly, and they should ban them to protect their citizens Here we have a case of an American nannying law being passed...but, somehow this is acceptable to you? I guess because YOU don't smoke?

I thought you were free to do as you want in the US without government steppping in to protect you?

Apparently not.

I'm telling Beet1e.

mrfish · « **Reply #24 on:** December 31, 2002, 11:00:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
I think it's like the freedom to wildly swing your fist around at the end of your arm.

That freedom stops just short of someone else's nose.

You're free to smoke. You're just not free to cause someone else to smoke your cig with you.

heh yeah-

i quit 3 years ago after 12 years of smoking. at least other drugs get you high, all smoking nicotiene does is make you jones 24/7 with minimal payoff.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #25 on:** December 31, 2002, 11:00:40 AM »

but of course they'll let you get away with smoking pot here.. just not cigarettes. Gawd Beetle oughta love it!

ra · « **Reply #26 on:** December 31, 2002, 11:02:40 AM »

Quote

Ra, I suspect you're serious.

I am serious because this is a serious issue. We have funneled billions of dollars to lawyers based on voodoo science. If they hadn't sold us the passive smoke garbage, people would still say 'smoking is obnoxious, but it's none of my business if someone wants to kill himself'. With passive smoke as a carcinogen, now it's everybody's business. I don't smoke and never have, and I don't like having watery eyes and my clothes smelling like smoke. But I've watched the anti-smoking crusaders doing their work since the 80's, and it's all a scam. They can use the same tactics to get money out of other industries: liquor, automobiles, fast food, guns. One by one we give up liberty to the nannies, while a handful of lawyers get rich. I'd rather have my clothes smell like smoke.

Quote

It can't be the quantity since there's no real evidence as to how much smoke it takes to cause these diseases.

It is the quantity. You probably inhale more carcinogens every time you fill up your gas tank than you would inhaling second hand smoke for a year. Even the EPA's statisticians (the EPA was the first to declare passive smoke a carcinogen) do not support the conclusion that second hand smoke can be proven to be a carcinogen.

It's just a case of greedy lawyers joining up with do-gooder, health-obsessed nannies.

ra

Suave · « **Reply #27 on:** December 31, 2002, 11:05:13 AM »

It is an infringement on the bar owners rights. The government is telling him he can't smoke or allow patrons to smoke on his private property .

Stupid people pass stupid laws .

Curval · « **Reply #28 on:** December 31, 2002, 11:11:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by ra
It is the quantity. You probably inhale more carcinogens every time you fill up your gas tank than you would inhaling second hand smoke for a year. ra

Yup. It amazes me when I see health nuts jogging on streets breathing the car exhaust fumes deeply into their lungs...deeper than a guy smoking a joint and holding in the smoke.

Then they turn around and blame 2nd hand smoke for the related illnesses that pop up years later.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #29 on:** December 31, 2002, 11:18:39 AM »

not to mention all the other health risks..
the food most American's eat is right up there,
lack of excercise-obesity etc etc

oh.. it's McDonald's fault..
or Phillip Morris
or probably soon Evian or something...

personally, I still like the no smoking law

most local business owners do too.. since the law passed and they 'booted' the smokers, sales and business has gone UP !
Seems there are more non-smokers that want to spend money in the bars than smokers.. hmmm

of course the smokers do have an alternative besides freezing their butts off outisde.. go to Aspen where you can smoke to your heart's desire