Author Topic: WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted  (Read 1769 times)

Offline Vulcan

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WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted
« on: December 31, 2002, 10:18:05 PM »
Heres an update ladies: I was again suffering AH burnout (all that stamping your feet at moderators, yelling and screaming at La7 dweebs, it wears you out). With the 'Welcome Back Soldier' offering I decided to once more delve into WWII Online and see how things have progressed.

I downloaded the latest version, 1.73, installed it and away we went. The first few days was really getting re-orientated and getting my controls setup.

First points are good. One of my criticisms of ww2ol was the razor-blade terrain - long rows of razor thing grass good for cover from one angle. I was happy to see not only have they fixed this with 'bookends', ie chunks of cover at each end perpendicular, they'd also added top horizontal cover. So now trees for example, cover in all 3 dimensions. This puts the cover not on par but a bit better than games like OFP.

The game also looks a lot prettier, with better hi res textures. The long distance views are really nice. The only thing really missing is a bit of depth fog. There is depth fog right at the edge of your range of vision, there should be more closer in. At the moment you can see sharply for a good 3km.

I played only  Axis, and focussed primarily on the ground war. I flew a few air missions and quickly decided that this wasn't the part of the game for me.

After a while you realize there a few key points where the battle tends to 'rage' back and forth. For me this was the front at Flavion. Flavion was occupied by the Allies and to its East were 3 towns occupied by the Axis. After a week of hard out playing (and nearly getting divorced) I started to get a good grip on the game. So its a good idea to find a spot like this, then you learn the terrain, layout, and really enjoy yourself.

The game has, imho, taken a turn for the better. The gameplay is there, the graphics are coming together as is the terrain and the vehicle set. Whats more a smart thinking ground pounder can do exceptionally well. The cover the new graphics provides allows for effective ambushes, flanking manoevres and all sorts of fun. Axis tanks have speed, manoeverability, but not the armour or firepower. Allied tanks are slow beasts but tough. Playing Axis my hit and run fighting worked extremely well (ie setup ambush point, hit the close from behind, make the kill, pull out setup new ambush point). You can really enjoy yourself, theres nothing quite like ambushing a couple of allied tanks from behind as they roll past you.

There are still so extremely dweebish things, just like AH has, and also some real issues CRS need to fix.

First of and most frustrating is the mission structure and rank. To earn rank you must complete missions, basically for a tank this means spawn, be out at least 10 mins, make a couple of kills and rtb. You can't post missions until you reach a certain rank. You can spawn a limited set of gear without missions, but usually this is useless gear. And if you spawn non-mission you don't seem to earn any rank points.

Which is OK except, say you're on in the wee hours, the Dinant Firebase is getting attacked, no senior guys are around to post a mission, you can only spawn crap armour to defend it (if any), and even if you do a good job you don't get recognised for it. Theres also a bug, once you hit Sgt you get limited to a small number of tanks and infantry you can spawn as. Theres a 'cheat' though, apparently if you spawn a heavy transport and sit in the garage for 10 mins then despawn you get rank points. Theres similar bugs for the airforce too.

Next major gripe, the damage model. If you guys think AH is bad, whoa horsey, you ain't seen nothing yet. I am of the firm belief CRS has some old croney reading tarot cards out the back to calculate damage. I have ambushed allied armour, like Chars and S35's, hit them with the Stugs 75mm AP from 200 yards, 6 times, and the buggers have driven off like nothing has happened. Similarly you might be driving along the road happily humming away then whack whack whack  - your engine is dead and you see a D520 buzz past. Yes an aircraft with a single 20mm Hispano and 60 rounds of HE ammo can take out any armour the Axis put up with ease (even from shallow 20 degree attacks).

Then theres the Panhard, this little armoured car wields the power of an M1A1 MBT, not only does it have the most amazing gun (supposed to be 25mm but I swear its got a howitzer), it has a bug where if you kill it the gunner doesn't die, so CRS have enabled a server forced despawn 20 seconds after the commander dies. That 20 seconds usually allows the uber-Pan to obliterate you as revenge. One would think with such major issues this vehicle would be disabled, but alas no. Currently the Axis strategy is shoot the panhard, stop firing and hope he doesn't see you before the 20second auto despawn activates.

Infantry is ... interesting. Most uses I saw of infantry were, ummm, one way missions. Basically storm the enemy town, grab the CPs, rush the bunker. If we die oh well grab another Opel and do it again. In fact 'organised' in WW2OL seems to only refer to this - either an organised FB killing run, or an organised Bunker rush. I saw no use of infantry in say like OFP ways, ie patrols, combined armour moves etc. Which I found a bit disappointing. What I also found annoying was the netcode sucks when it comes to infantry. The update speed is bad, so bad it makes proper infantry and squad combat 'flakey' at least. Trying to track guys with SMGs is a joke.

Having seen the bad side of things, its interesting to note that I've gone from slamming the game engine to actually exploring the gameplay. Which says a lot about how far the games come. Which is good news. But CRS really need to ramp it up, on my list of to do's for them I'd put:
 - the need to look at their netcode, especially the infantry sid
 - they need in game vox BADLY, this game is all about teamwork and relying on 3rd party product like RW doesn't help
 - they need some fog/weather effects a la OFP. Distance viewing is just way to sharp.
 - if vehicles are obviously bugged they need to disable them til they are fixed
 - they really need to rework the rank/mission system. Honestly they need to take a peak at AH's perk point system
 - I'd also like to see a semi-auto driver a la OFP, where u can order the driver to stop, turn left right go forward etc from the gunnery position
 - they need to sort out the server lag (especially vehicle lists in missions)

One thing I did notice, around 25% of the people I came across were trying the game out again. Either on free trials or reactivated accounts. I also noticed a lot of squeaking, covering ALL of the above. If CRS want to keep these people they need to work on it fast.

I'm 50/50 on whether to stay or not, which is a big turnaround from my last view of the game. I'll stay til the freebie ends then review it at that stage.

Let the flames begin...

Offline thrila

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WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2002, 10:45:24 PM »
If you think theAxis have it bad against the D520 you should try playing as the brits.  

A couple of days ago for the first time i got into a mission and we all formed up ready to advance together etc...  About 5 mins after leaving the FB, two 110s arrived and slaughtered us all.  I was waiting around for ages waiting for people to join in the mission- and we lasted all of 5 mins.

I've given up on the a13, i brew up with 1 hit everytime.  I mainly use the vickers now and go hunt infantry-  killing infantry boosts my ego.:)  Although it's sooo slow, i can't get it out of 2nd gear offroad.  If i shift it into 3rd the revs slowly die so i have to travel everywhere in 2nd gear with the engine going nuts with the high revs.  I also like hiding in some bushes gunning in a 2pndr, that's usually fun.:)


The rank thing to post missions makes me laugh sometimes.  There can be a town under attack maybe 2 towns away from an airfield but no-one has enough rank to post a mission to defend it.  All these guys are asking for air cover but it was pointless because planes came into defend it in drips and drabs.  If someone could have posted a mission to defend it, it coulda stopped the town from falling.

I quite enjoy the tank aspect of the game, the infantry aspect is nothing special and the flying part of the game is pants (due to the FM being somewhat half complete).
"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline Raubvogel

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WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2002, 10:58:41 PM »
I've had about the same experience as you Vulcan. I recognize the improvements, and the game is much better, but it's still not where it needs to be to keep me around.

The biggest improvement I noticed was the sounds. Now they are actually somewhat accurate in regards to direction and distance. The ambient sounds are a nice touch too. Still, there are too many warts for me to pay anything for it.

Offline -tronski-

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WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2003, 04:11:00 AM »
I've been meaning to take up the welcome back offer, not that I've got a puter to properly handle it...but I'm buggered if I've got the time....

 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2003, 04:56:48 AM »
Oh yeah forgot to mention, 512Mb ain't enuff.

Offline OIO

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WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2003, 10:58:44 AM »
Vulcan, ive been playing WW2OL in the welcome back soldier promo for about 2 weeks now.

Here's my views:


Air War: As laughable as it was the day the game was launched. Views are horrible, the keymapper is so buggy I can barely map my MS FF2 stick (it wont map my throttle stick nor rudder pedals correctly, it detects them as the same axis *sigh*). I do LOVE their icon system and the "feel" of flight the pilot's bobbing head effect gives.

Right now theres a horrid bug that allows german planes, namely the Bf110C4, to take all ammo from any allied plane in hits at point blank range, have its engines smoking and the plane on fire and the 110 will fly and fight as if nothing had happened. Think of the AH Zero on fire,  but this one dont blow up after a little while, it actually keeps fighting AND outruns any allied plane to boot (110 outrunning spitfire? huh???). CRS has posted a "we fugged up, sorry, but you can still kill a 110 if you hit its pilot!" post :rolleyes:

Oh and the FM sucks so bad it hurts.

Btw, the 520 with the hispano will kill pz2 and armored cars from any angle, the P3 and 4 require from-top hits, just like the 109s and 110s need from-top hits on allied tanks. There is an issue with the HE working vs tanks, just as inf. grenade's HE blast goes through the armor and hits the crew inside. Its also on their to-fix list. Now the 520 will only have this HE bug kill the crew if the hispano round lands right on the location of the crew (which with a fast firing cannon is not hard).

Ground:

Tank Vs Tank is a game of luck. Ive played both axis and allied gear, the axis has a HUGE advantage with their optics. Allies have Char and Matilda which are comparable durability-wise with the Pz4. I drive mainly the A13 (i love that cannon buggy), and ive sneaked around and PARKED myself bumper to bumper on a pz and put 12 rounds into its rear engine and turret and what not... pzr turned turret, kilt me with 1 shot and drove off. After that I quickly learned that since CRS is utterly incompetent, I should instead take advantage of their FUBARS.

So vulcan my boy, whether you play axis or allies, shoot the enemy tank from LONG range so that your shells arc and land on a TOP ASPECT on the enemy tanks. With the minimal armor they have up there, even an A13 will 1-hit kill a Pz4 if you lob a shell that way. :D

Infantry is the saddest part of the game. CRS has forgotten the foot soldier. Towns and terrain are actually designed for TANK fights,  no matter how much they claim they added cover for infantry (in fact the added cover benefits tank far more than infantry!). The only, the one and only role, purpose and job the infantry does in the game is to capture flags. They cannot attack, cannot defend, cannot dig in or anything of that sort. Rifles are bugged in that they cant kill at short range (thus most german riflemen run around with their luger out), SMG's are quake and sappers, now being the only unit that can blow FB's, are nothing but suicide bombers. Added to their woes is that infantry are extremely easy to spot even when "in cover" thanks to what i call the "blinking pixel" effect. Even at 900m range, without binocs, a rifleman or tank can spot a single infantryman in cover. Why? the moment that enemy infantry (Ei) rotates to scan its surroundings, his pixels overlap with terrain pixels. Creating a blinkblinkblinkblink pattern that screams for attention. In the case of tanks, see blinkypixel, aim blinkypixel, spray blinkypixel with MG, get kill. Scan for more blinkypixels. repeat.

Oh, and tank MG's have minimal dispersion up to 1000m range, you can easily expect to put 95% of bullets through a building door at max range (CRS has said MG bullets dissapear at 1000m).

Overall, WW2OL ground war is fun..if youre a tank. Air War is fun if you dont know better.

Offline hardcase

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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2003, 02:21:19 PM »
My spit out turns 109s. I'm surprised you didn't get the keymapper to detect correctly. Did you switch to JS Axis and manual map them to your Z and Z rot+-?. I have my pedals mapped to steer the tank and track tow-ers. Throttle is mapped the center brakes when off and throttle when on. Engines on the multiengined AC seems to work correctly. They lose power over time and if not landed they will fall out of the sky. Fuel tank fires are another matter. You can't visually see the difference. Killilng at short range for inf, you should aim at their pelvis. Guns are Battle Sight Zeroed for 200 meters. I don't play INF enought to be familiar with any problems. No 110 has ever out run my spit. Max RPM settings will catch em every time but you have to watch the heat buildup. Hurris cannot catch them. If you are in when I am there, give a holler and will do a mission to Glitze and see what the problems are.

HC

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2003, 03:43:50 PM »
The 110 does die, I flew it a few times and took some hard damage.

Interesting to hear the other view of the ground war. I have exactly the same problem, 1 shot kills my gunner/commander etc in PIII or PIV. Especially hits from the Pan.

I probably won't stick around. Theres a lot of unhappy axis players with the historical aspect, apparently the Hurri IIC is coming. IMHO this is just plain stupid, the RAF already has the Spit which was actually held by from France by the RAF. Then theres the Pan, rumour is its getting the 40mm (2lber?) gun, which never saw action. And it looks like the 520 armour killing ability isn't going to be fixed.

Offline OIO

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WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2003, 04:25:02 PM »
vulcan, hard damage from what?

AI AAA is the ONLY thing that has ever brought down my 110 from damage (non-pilot damage that is).

Ive had 2 spits on my 6 shooting like madmen while I plinked them with my tail gun.. I shot down 1 before I went to return to fly the 110..and found my pilot so wounded I could barely see through the haze. Plane on fire on both wings and fuselage but I still rtbd and landed.

On the hurri I do get control surface damage, which is neat.. but ive never ever ever ever ever have had it in the 110, and when you got multiple cons firing at something AS big as the 110 chances are they hit the wing far more than the fuselage, and yet, no control surfaces lost. ever.

Oh, and in WW2OL, HO's rule. Ho anything, a 109, a 111, a 110... kill the pilot if you get a little stream in his face. Ive started to give up on saddling on 6 and just HO everything I see. mwhahaha.

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2003, 06:03:59 PM »
Umm I think it was a H75 or mebbe a D520.

WW2OL has such a simplified FM its like playing Tie Fighters vs X-Wings.

I'm there for the ground war too. But seeing Panhards at about 2:1 vs all other Allied tanks combined makes the game a bit sad.

Offline hardcase

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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2003, 06:05:01 PM »
I suspect you're wrong, Vulcan.

HC

Offline hardcase

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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2003, 10:39:51 PM »
My experience says differently on the flight model. Rick hates playgate. Most ppl do.

HC

Offline Creamo

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WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2003, 11:09:23 PM »
Man I hate to punt his and continue the point of the 500 post, but one of my X-mas software gifts like the Janes’s Naval pak with F/A18 right out of the bargain shelf, was also the WWII ONLINE “Readers Choice Edition”. Fair enough, I asked for any software that was cheap and had anything to do with WWII. Had to laugh though, I can only imagine they stock old titles like them kinda like the “bin shoes” in K-mart where they bind those super sporty tennie boppers with a piece of plastic tie and you have to dig through the bin for your size.

Anyway, it was several days till I got to loading it, as I mentioned F/A18 patched on high graphics turned out to be quite good present. But I did finally load it.

This is as fair as I can be, and with all of TC’s posts since I loaded my first self bought $40 copy, I was not excited, but intrigued(?) I guess.

After loading what “the readers choose” as the new version, I set up my free trial. Then proceeded through at least ½ hour of patching. One, after another, after another. Would 6-10 be fair to say? Hell, I don’t know, but as annoying as it was, I was thinking patches are good and didn’t mind. AH guys half crap themselves on the mention of patches, so this was just bonus stuff I guess.

When prompted for at least the 3rd time through out the patch process, I chose MAX graphics just to get the goodies, thinking I would tweak it later if it was the RAM pig slide show of the original version reared it’s head again. That wasn’t necessary. When I finally got in the game, it was really smooth. Cool. So off I went.

The interface for a noobie left a lot to be desired but I tried a soldier. I couldn’t find anyone, so set out towards the nme lines. I loved the vastness of the map, and it felt like you were in the country. About 15 minutes later of running like I was a marathon champion with only my finger going numb, I realized 2 things. The graphics were hideous, and it was boring. Well, I’m being fair, so it’s actually 3 things. You have to know the game to have any fun at all. I finally ran into a field and died. A slow, painful death, I sat with a black screen for awhile from something I have no idea what. Chat, and kill messages weren’t really appearent. Finally I got back to the menu, and tried a tank.

Now tanks are cool. Still look like toejam and aren’t as easy and fun as BF1942, but I loved the hint at realism, gears and speed. Off I went. Had a plane strafe me, and with the limited graphics, this still looked cool. Then a gun from way out ( I think) shot tracers at me and I diverted off the road. Then sat in a red, then black screen. Hmmm, must have to learn the game, because the graphics suck so bad, guys are good and Im missing the gameplay.

So off to offline mode to try aircraft. Hey! It is BF1942 without the fun!

Then I deleted my free trial 2 hours into it.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2003, 11:15:32 PM »
Thx for sharing. Nice read.

I think I'll wait just a weeeeeeee bit more.  ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline hardcase

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WW2OL - Yes another 500 post thread - Revisted
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2003, 11:42:02 PM »
You should have d/l the full install from the D/L page. That cd is a least 4 update behind. Spawn in a town with a fight can save you a run. Tune the OOB frequencies that are on the OOB page. 55 is brig air, 5 is ground,there are others,  axis has similar set freqs. Ask for a ride is you manage to spawn at a FB near a city fight. Sorry you didn't have any fun. Graphics seem fine at 1024 with all the bells and whistles turned on, but to each is on. Have fun with 42.


Gee toad..a newbie who didnt have a clue posts his lack of gameplay and you take that as a worthy critique. I think you really don't intend to play anyway.


HC:D