Moslem justice

[Hortlund]

Oh, and one of the reasons I find all this so horribly #*%# sick, disgusting and offensive is not only because they are killing off their own women in medieval fashion, it is also because this behavior is starting to spread to our nations. Among the immigrants from those countries that is.

In Sweden alone we have had 4-5 "honorary murders" in the last year or so. And that is only the ones we know about, the ones that happened "in country", there are lots of girls who go home to their old countries on holliday and never return.

Typical scenario is something along the lines of "girl falls in love with Swedish guy, family of girl disaproves, girl realizes she has the right to do whatever she wants because she is living in a civilized country so girl tells family to mind their own business and moves out, father/uncle/brother of girl kills girl."

Or "girl starts to dress like western girls, family of girl disaproves, girl tells family to back off because she can dress any way she wants, father/uncle/brother of girl kills girl."

I think we had 5 cases like that last year. Young girls aged 16-22, all murdered by dad/brother/uncle. All because they wanted to live a normal life.

[Thud]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Oh, and one of the reasons I find all this so horribly #*%# sick, disgusting and offensive is not only because they are killing off their own women in medieval fashion, it is also because this behavior is starting to spread to our nations. Among the immigrants from those countries that is.

In Sweden alone we have had 4-5 "honorary murders" in the last year or so. And that is only the ones we know about, the ones that happened "in country", there are lots of girls who go home to their old countries on holliday and never return.

I find it utterly amusing that people like you raise hell when hearing about some immigrant killing their daughter because he feels his honor has been compromised, but when these things happen in a 'normal: white, christian' family noone really cares. How often does it happen that a family is massacred by one of its members because of some relational problem?

The answer is very often. The latter are far more common but are found at page 18 of the newspaper under a header 'family-tragedy'. And as you work in a court you probably heard at one time or another that in most western countries domestic violence is the cause behind the majority of murders and it has been so far before the immigrants you're referring to came into the western world in numbers.

It's the usual thing: people like you are rightfully enraged by crimes, but accidently you're more enraged when it's committed by a muslem, immigrant or any other subject of your unfounded prejudices and eventually you succeed in labeling the whole thing as an excuse to send them all back.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Hmm...lets see... a nation condemns a woman to execution by stoning because she was allegedly having an affair (testimony of husband enough evidence, the woman need not be heard in the trial at all)...yes, that sounds just about the same as a nation not being able to prosecute someone due to a treaty with another nation. (my bet is those soldiers will be dealt with by the US justice system instead).

You know, we are not able to prosecute foregin diplomats either...that should be roughly the same thing as letting a dad stab his daughter 25 times because she was talking back to him...or?

A nation condemns a woman? You mean a court finds a women guilty?

For someone supposedly involved in the legal system, you seem awfully surprised to find out of the inequities of legal systems, more so wholeheartedly eager to bomblast a slice of your swedish society.

So how many people get seemlingly light sentences for crimes of passion in Sweden?

It seems an unheard of event.

 Tronsky

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by -tronski-
A nation condemns a woman? You mean a court finds a women guilty?

[/b]
I thought that was what I said.

For someone supposedly involved in the legal system, you seem awfully surprised to find out of the inequities of legal systems, more so wholeheartedly eager to bomblast a slice of your swedish society.

[/b]
I dont understand what you mean here.

So how many people get seemlingly light sentences for crimes of passion in Sweden?

It seems an unheard of event.

 Tronsky

Sweden is not a good example since everybody gets light sentences here. But I cannot really think of one example where a person found guilty of murder had his sentence reduced because he was angry, sad, upset, displeased or whatever. The only situation that would be even remotely close is when someone commits a crime as a revenge. Person A kills person B because A just found out that B had raped A:s wife...in cases like that it has happened that the court lowered the sentence for person A...but not by that much...maybe from 10 years to 7 years or something similar to that.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Thud
I find it utterly amusing that people like you raise hell when hearing about some immigrant killing their daughter because he feels his honor has been compromised, but when these things happen in a 'normal: white, christian' family noone really cares. How often does it happen that a family is massacred by one of its members because of some relational problem?

The answer is very often. The latter are far more common but are found at page 18 of the newspaper under a header 'family-tragedy'. And as you work in a court you probably heard at one time or another that in most western countries domestic violence is the cause behind the majority of murders and it has been so far before the immigrants you're referring to came into the western world in numbers.

[/b]
No, these things doenst happen very often or even often in "normal" families. A random Swedish family father doesnt butcher his daughter because she wants to marry some guy, even if that guy would be a slimeball, nor would he put a bullet in her head if she lost her virginity before marriage. If you fail to see that these honorary murders are cultural related, it is only because you are desperately trying to look the other way. Or you may simply have reached another level of PC:ness...you have reached the state of denial.

Those family tragedys you are talking about happens yes, they are more uncommon then you might want to realize though, and they have nothing to do with the topic at hand right now.

It's the usual thing: people like you are rightfully enraged by crimes, but accidently you're more enraged when it's committed by a muslem, immigrant or any other subject of your unfounded prejudices and eventually you succeed in labeling the whole thing as an excuse to send them all back.

You seem to know an awful lot about me and why I hate criminals like that dad. Perhaps you could tell me more about my "unfounded prejudices"...more exactly what are my prejudices, and in what way are they unfounded?

[Eagler]

strange how some stand beside Islam with its faults while crucifying Christians at every opportunity..

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Of cource this is an example of Moslem justice. If you want Dowding, I can pull similar examples from other nations whose state religion is Islam, and whose legal system is Islamic.

Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Syria...you just let me know and I'll drag up a couple of similar cases.

How about searching for similar examples from India. Perhaps it is not the religion but the culture?

How about this example here in the US?

I remember this one from the early eighties.
http://www.politicalcircus.com/archive/article_799.shtml

Vincent Chin's slaying came to symbolize anti-Asian violence nationally and internationally. His death took place in the climate of a protracted national anti-Japanese and anti-Asian hysteria. In the moments before the fatal attack, witnesses overheard Ronald Ebens' say to Vincent, "It's because of you motherf*ckers that we're out of work." After Wayne County Judge Charles Kaufman sentenced the confessed killers to only three years' probation and fines for their vicious bludgeoning attack on Chin, a civil rights movement of Asian Americans was born, led by Detroit-based American Citizens for Justice, with Mrs. Lily Chin's active involvement. Her legacy, and her son's, was recorded in the Academy-award nominated documentary film, "Who Killed Vincent Chin?," which has been viewed by millions of Americans.

***************************

I know, lets just kill ALL the muslims and anyone that even looks like a muslim so we can be sure and get that fraction of possible terrorists

After that group is eliminated, what other groups are we going to go after?

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Eagler
strange how some stand beside Islam with its faults while crucifying Christians at every opportunity..

...and strange how some stand beside Christianity with its faults while crucifying Muslims at every opportunity  

[SaburoS]

Let us not forget how in China how daughters were killed or abandoned because they wanted a son.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by SaburoS
How about searching for similar examples from India. Perhaps it is not the religion but the culture?

[/b]
India and Jordan have the same culture? Fascinating. OR maybe there are Indian moslems...who knows...

How about this example here in the US? [SNIP]

[/b]
Irellevant because it is a completely different discussion.

You are talking about a (supposedly) racist judge/jury. Well, if you want to go down that alley, you should jump back to the 50s and search in the southern states, you might have more luck coming up with jucier cases then.  

I know, lets just kill ALL the muslims and anyone that even looks like a muslim so we can be sure and get that fraction of possible terrorists

After that group is eliminated, what other groups are we going to go after?

Answering these insane ramblings will only get me into trouble with Skuzzy. Lets just say that I fail to understand what this has got to do with the current topic and leave it at that.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Hortlund

India and Jordan have the same culture? Fascinating. OR maybe there are Indian moslems...who knows...
[/b]
Irellevant because it is a completely different discussion.

You are talking about a (supposedly) racist judge/jury. Well, if you want to go down that alley, you should jump back to the 50s and search in the southern states, you might have more luck coming up with jucier cases then.  
 
Answering these insane ramblings will only get me into trouble with Skuzzy. Lets just say that I fail to understand what this has got to do with the current topic and leave it at that. [/B]

In India could it not be some Hindus that are doing it?

Sorry Hort,
Thought you were talking about injustices practiced in other countries. I was adding some examples. I chose the Vincent Chen case because it was headline news from my memory.
Perhaps you can be a bit more clear what your points are in this thread

[Dowding (Work)]

I think Hortlund's point is that if horrible injustices happen in countries whose major religion is Islam, it is QED that Islam is a bad religion and its followers are barbarians.

He conveniently overlooks the injustices suffered by Muslims at the hand of Hindus in India or by Palestinian civilians at the hands of Israelis.

BTW, Hortlund. I remember we once discussed how Christian clergy had never had any involvement in terrorist action (as opposed to your view regarding Islamic religious leaders) - I gave the example of the Catholic priest who was the suspected leader of an IRA cell that killed protestant civilians in a bomb in the 1970s. You dismissed the case as hearsay.

Well, whattaya know. They just reinvestigated the matter and they conclude that a Catholic priest WAS the head of the cell and he did mastermind the attack which left 8 people dead. Fancy that! Clergy from the Holiest of holies murdering innocent women and children only 30 years ago! Oh, the injustice! Where are your sweeping generalisations now?

[whgates3]

dont forget the dude in california who got life (virtual death sentence) for stealing a slice of pizza...under islamic law he'd have just lost a hand, no (unless maybe is was peperoni)?

[Toad]

Only 10 years for murder in Sweden?

[Curval]

Originally posted by whgates3
dont forget the dude in california who got life (virtual death sentence) for stealing a slice of pizza...under islamic law he'd have just lost a hand, no (unless maybe is was peperoni)?

I believe that was his "third strike".  You will probably find that strikes one and two would have rendered it impossible to steal that slice of pizza if he was in an Islamic country...he wouldn't have been able to pick it up without his hands.