Author Topic: Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..  (Read 3265 times)

Offline beet1e

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2003, 05:56:34 AM »
Poopster – Happy New Year!
I’ve only just joined this thread. I’d been away from AH gameplay for weeks, and had been looking forward to the Mission Arena, but that’s deferred to a future release. I was crushed about that. :(

It seems that more and more people are finding that the AH gameplay has become tedious, what with all the gangbangs and suiciders. Ripsnort is right – the vox channel is changing. I myself have been known to call out from a PT Boat – ”Suicide P38 overhead!”. And after he’s dead, ”That suicide P38 should be back in 10-12 minutes!”.

I don’t so much *like* the pizza map, but it did address the problem of overcrowding. It also addressed the problem of LA7 cherry pickers – on two counts. 1, fields too far apart for opportunist LA7 cherry picking. 2, High altitude sometimes not conducive to LA7 flight.

Poop, try different things – you’re working through the planes – have you got to B? Bf109 – a lot of fun. I’m a bit of a lone wolf and need a fast plane, but also one that’s a challenge. The 109G10 is currently the one. All deaths compression crashes – lol.

Lazs! I thought you might be in here. :) Now lazs is an old WB friend of mine from about 1998, and whether you agree with him or not, he is usually very consistent. But it seems that even Lazs is changing his views on AH suicides/gangbangery. About a year ago, I voiced concern that I was finding it hard to locate likeminded players who would be prepared to form up into a co-ordinated attack, lack of 6 calls etc. and voiced my opinion on how AH “should be played”. Bad mistake! And Lazs was quick to register a certain amount of disdain, and asked me to please point out how I think the MA “should be”. He finished by saying
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What should the MA be? I personally like to see a lot of guys having fun and HTC making money.
Fair enough, I learned a lot from that thread, and acted accordingly. But Lazs’s point was that the situation I described was “a lot of guys having fun”. Please explain the difference between that, and what is now the subject of complaint – gangbanging hordes. To me, a gangbanging horde looks like....... dare I say it ...... a lot of guys having fun. Too bad if you’re not one of them, because then it might not be much fun for you at all. Now, it seems that even Lazs has changed his point of view. Further up THIS thread he said
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yep... anyplace where a decent even fight between two reasonably close fields is ruined by the no talent suicide runs on fuel or FH. I don't want the suiciders to get better at it I want it to be very difficult to do. It is ruining the kind of gameplay I like (aircombat) and I don't see what is the point of the gameplay it causes.
Oh!  What do you mean, Lazs? AH not being played as it “should” be played? :confused:

I personally get a lot of enjoyment out of jabo missions. It is NOT all about shooting inanimate objects. I’ve even landed 6 kills in a P47D30 in the pizza map! OK, 2 of those were newly spawned GVs that died when I blew up the VH, but the others were planes... But now, Lazs wants to restrict/control my fun –
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I think perking 1000 and even 500 lb bombs would be a start..   and make 1000 and 500 lb bombs a perk issue
Really, Lazs. I am shocked! You want to take away my unrestricted freedom to carry bombs! Not only is this a move towards controlling AH gameplay so that AH becomes how you think it "should be" played, it does rather fly in the face of.......  naah, never mind. ;)

The good news is that good things seem to be in the works- new maps, mission arena. I have to agree that gameplay in the MA on a small map with 500 people on does not interest me. Euro morning hours are much better, with the arena made up of many kiwis and ozzies – and lazy gits like me who have just crawled out of bed – lol.

Snapshot of Lazs quote from Feb-2002 in .ZIP
« Last Edit: January 11, 2003, 04:26:51 AM by beet1e »

Offline lazs2

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2003, 08:12:56 AM »
beetle... let me disect your wall-0-words and see if I am being "consistent" yet again... I am not against suicide bombing per se... simply against the effect such talentless actions have in the arena.   I have exactly the same opinion about suicide bombers/building battlers that I had against fluffers..  do what they want but don't have a lopsided affect on gameplay.   Fighters can't have 262's or 163s for free... why should jabo have the best bombs... the ones gurenteed to do the job each and every time?

Not only that but.... If they have the "patience' to climb (like the old fluff) then they can dive and die with immunity.

I am saying that, like the old fluffers, the jabo/building battlers are not doing it for "strat" they are doing it because they lack talent and it is something that the talentless can do and still get a lot of attention..  If they had a more balanced effect.... they would go the way of so many talentless fluffers.... end of problem.

HTC sees the problem and asked if there shouldn't be some sort of "delay' on bomb kills.   I feel that perking the bombs would be enough to drive away the talentless.... like making bombing more realistic did to the fluffers.   They wander off when it's not easy and will probly all go to GV's or.... some may even learn to fly a little.

I think some of em genuinly feel that people appreciate their sacrafice and as they realize how despised they are will probly just stop the practice but...  

They simply shouldn't be able to take out valuable targets with so little effort or skill...   You can't just up in the best fighter in the game.... why should you be able to suicide with the best ordinance in the game?
lazs

Offline gofaster

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2003, 08:17:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
To me its simple:

I say hey suicide porking runs are ruining the game.

They say hey its a strategic move to capture fields.

Fine I say, part of a strategic environment is attrition. If you die how about losing some of your forward planes.

They say hey we want to fly what we want when want.

I say so what happened to 'strategy'.


I say hey real strategy only happens in TOD and scenarios.

Offline lazs2

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2003, 08:17:24 AM »
Any number of solutions could be implemented including but not limited to.... perking "uber" bombs of 500 and 1000.... better more powerful ack at fields that tracked fast planes better than slow manuevering ones...  manable ack, every gun manable.   None of these would be unrealistic or stop people from the freedom to fly as they wished.   They simply couldn't have a bigger effect on gameplay than was warrented by their effort.
lazs

Offline gofaster

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2003, 08:18:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by popeye
Time for Fighter Town?


Happens in H2H mode.

Offline Rude

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2003, 08:44:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
yep... anyplace where a decent even fight between two reasonably close fields is ruined by the no talent suicide runs on fuel or FH.   I don't want the suiciders to get better at it I want it to be very difficult to do.   It is ruining the kind of gameplay I like (aircombat) and I don't see what is the point of the gameplay it causes.

What fun is a game where you can never engage in large even fitghts?   Why call it a multiplayer game if you have to avoid every area where there are "multiple players"?    

I don't see the fun of the building battling and field porking... is it the (LOL) 25 perks you may see if you stay online killing buildings for 10-100 straight hours?   Is it simply that they are so skilless and timid that they dont want to be in anything that approches a fight and get excieted just knowing that there is a small chance that they may get to vultch some terminally stupid player upping over and over at a porked base?  
lazs


I agree.

Folks should still be able to disable a field if they so choose...they should have to use skill to accomplish it, not just point their plane at the target and dart it.

I believe HTC is going to fix this soon.

Offline Yeager

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2003, 08:49:54 AM »
I believe HTC is going to fix this soon.
====
I hope so.  Im getting tired of constantly having the feeling that I am a grown man playing with a bunch of ill mannered spoiled brat snotty nosed children.  Some good people and Im damned glad they are online but there is a definate suffocation going on, has been for awhile now.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Rude

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2003, 08:57:49 AM »
Spoken by the Beet1e....

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I personally get a lot of enjoyment out of jabo missions. It is NOT all about shooting inanimate objects. I’ve even had 6 kills in a P47D30 in the pizza map! OK, 2 of those were newly spawned GVs that died when I blew up the VH, but the others were planes... But now, Lazs wants to restrict/control my fun –


Lazs speaks not of Jabo Missions but rather suicide missions....does the enjoyment you get out of jabo sorties come from hitting the targets you drop on and surviving the attempt or ramming into them killing the target and yourself? Which is it?

Again, HTC will figure out a fair way to fix this I'm certain...because of that, I'm not sweatin it. I understand why Lazs feels as he does because I share his feelings regarding good fights being ruined. I wouldn't mind a good fight coming to an end if I knew that the enemy had employed good tactics and a certain degree of skill to accomplish their objectives rather than just ramming ground targets like a dart.

Whatever, it's just another topic which will be bantered about until HT does what he does...I believe it will get better.

Offline lazs2

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2003, 09:00:44 AM »
guys... it is just a loophole in gameplay that is being exploited by the attention starved... there is no difference in the suicide bomber than the old fluff model... I believe beetle defended the old fluff model too.   For some reason he is a real champion of talentless gameplay.
lazs

Offline gofaster

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2003, 09:05:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Any number of solutions could be implemented including but not limited to.... perking "uber" bombs of 500 and 1000.... better more powerful ack at fields that tracked fast planes better than slow manuevering ones...  manable ack, every gun manable.   None of these would be unrealistic or stop people from the freedom to fly as they wished.   They simply couldn't have a bigger effect on gameplay than was warrented by their effort.
lazs


I agree.  Perk the big 1,000 pounders (if possible) or at least increase the ROF for the mannable field guns.  I can't hit a thing with those slow-firing blunderbusses.

Offline maxtor

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2003, 09:22:43 AM »
In all fairness Lazs, unless I somehow managed to get entirely the wrong idea, in AH game play you don't like or participate in:

  • JABO, any kind of JABO
  • Bombers, any kind of bombers
  • GV's, any kind of GV's


In an arena perfect for you, none of these elements would even exist.  Not that there is anything wrong with that mind you, but it does color your perceptions.

Offline Jackal1

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2003, 09:42:23 AM »
and the crowd goes wild
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline DrDea/Kvorkian

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #87 on: January 09, 2003, 10:25:39 AM »
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guys... it is just a loophole in gameplay that is being exploited by the attention starved...


  Why is it every person that compresses into the ground is "Gameing the game" or skilless or what the hell ever?? Does it never occour to you that MABY they just dont get it right some times?As youve said you dont hang around bases being attacked so how do you know?Going by what someone else says?And who in the hell is trying to get attention?There trying to kill a base.NOT get attention. Since when did AH turn into My way or the highway. Does it make sence to say  "Relax guys its a loophole in the game where people dont Jabo stuff.They just fly around shooting at other planes trying to get attention and win money.There skilless dweebs that cant drop a bomb to save there lives."

Offline beet1e

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #88 on: January 09, 2003, 10:26:06 AM »
Rude said
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does the enjoyment you get out of jabo sorties come from hitting the targets you drop on and surviving the attempt or ramming into them killing the target and yourself? Which is it?
No, I prefer to LAND all kills/bombings. In my original post, I realised the wording was misleading – now changed to “in the P47D30 I’ve LANDED 6 kills etc.”.  Glad you pointed that out, because in some games eg. WB, your score (motivating factor for many) was tripled if you actually landed your sorties. That cut out a lot of reckless flying and suiciding. I should add that when it’s the pizza map, and having bombed a vehicle field and disabled the acks, if no-one offers troop support in a goon/M3, I will bail in order to do it myself. The alternative would be to run out of time, and fail to make the field capture.

Hehe lazs, thanks for reading my wall-0-words... We had some good times flying purps back in 1998, eh? I wasn’t trying to do a hatchet job on anything you’ve said. Indeed, I am pleased that you now see that games need rules and/or other controlling influences to prevent them from becoming a disorganised melee. Funny how people come to that realisation when they are on the receiving end of what’s being dished out. We never hear complaints from the dishers out. :D

Mr. Toad! Ah yes, I see that you too have seen the light. Only a few weeks ago, you said in this thread
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Imagine a game where the developer provided the toys and all the kids in the sandbox were free to make their own choices about what constituted "fun". For some of us, that'd be heaven. For others, freedom of choice like that is scary or disappointing or "unfair" or something a nanny should do for them. and later in the same thread... Might as well let the rest of us Anarchists Unite!
And now you’re saying
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Yep it's pretty obvious nobody is having any fun in the MA anymore. Been knocking on 600 the last few times I've played. Fortunately, there are many choices with even more OTW. New maps coming and a "mission theater" as well. What could be better?
But a Mission Theatre will be structured, and have rules! Wasn't it you who once used the expression "stunning reversal"? ;) I’ve never been one to say “I told you so”, so instead, welcome to my side of the fence!

Yeager – I know exactly how you feel about all the kids etc. It’s bound to happen in games with a flat rate pricing plan.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2003, 10:29:30 AM by beet1e »

Offline lazs2

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Observation: Changes in MA style in the last month or so..
« Reply #89 on: January 09, 2003, 10:54:45 AM »
beetle... you are of course again not reading what I wrote.   I am not asking for rules on how to play the game.   The so called "strat" is not even a concern to me except.... I don't believe that any single element of the game should have an affect on other peoples gameplay that is way out of proportion to what skill is required to participate in that element.  simple enough eh?   If you have a part of gameplay that requires no, or very little skill and at the same time effects gameplay..... You will attract many attention starved and skilless people to it... the element becomes a "loophole" in an otherwise skilled game.   I am not asking for "rules".    I am asking to close the loophole.

Asking for better and/or manable ack is closing the loophole in gameplay while adding choice... not removing it.... Asking for large bombs to be perked is consitent with the current perk system... meaning... you need to show skill/earn credit berfore you can have the dweebiest crap.    

It's the same thing as the old fluffer model.... a loophole that needs to be closed in the gameplay.
lazs