Author Topic: Fool me once, shame on you.... (Read 1603 times)

Ping · « **Reply #30 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:23:25 PM »

AKS:
The US is Guilty of using WMD, State sponsered Terrorism.
Its allies, Saudi Arabia, terrorist heaven. India and Pakistan both have there terrorist groups and are threatening Nuclear response against each other. I WON'T get into Israels Sins, too touchy of an issue.
Turkey in the 20th century slaughtered 1.6 million armenians in an act of Genocide .
Because these are allies there sins are overlooked. Are you such a patriot that you are blinded by the fact that your country is not the Knight in shining armour that you thought it was?
Iraq was about Oil..It still is. Nothing more..nothing less. Its not about protecting its allies(whom tend to stray to the scummier side of life)
I am amazed that There are those that get the impression that I want the US to police and take care of all the rogue states. Far from it. I am pointing out the Hypocrisy of the Governments Words and Deeds. Lives are at stake in this issue and the world is so small right now that you cant just let injustice go by without at least taking notice.

To top it all off The US expected Canada to join in on the war, So yes this does involve us as Canadians. This war that the Bush Regime wants is purely for Their own self interest.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #31 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:27:58 PM »

The US is guilty of using a WMD? Overlooking the fact it ended what could of been in excess of millions of more lives lost (Japanese, American, and possibly even British)...

That's a far stretch to compare the use of 2 nukes to end one of the greatest wars this world has seen, to use of WMDs against your own people.

And the US is guilty of sponsoring terrorism? How?

Are you such a patriot that you are blinded by the fact that your country is not the Knight in shining armour that you thought it was?

Are you completely delusional?
-SW

Puke · « **Reply #32 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:28:55 PM »

GW is a Who fan.

"...the same as the ol' boss..."

Ping · « **Reply #33 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:38:22 PM »

AKS..Have you not heard of the Contras???

Where have you been? South america had camps setup all over the place run by the CIA. My Gawd man..do some research.

The CIA directed the contras to switch to economic and civilian targets. The international courts even ruled it as terrorism.
Reagan, Bush Sr. the list goes on as to who was involved in these terrorist groups.

World War 1 the US also used Chemical weapons and Nerve Gas.
They stockpiled it for use in WW2.
Read the History books.

Ping · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:43:34 PM »

Oh yes..A former director of the CIA also admitted it funded and trained terrorist groups.

Sadly I'm not disllusional, AKS just research these facts and see it for yourself. The US is Guilty of these things....dont be a Boroda and deny everything just because it goes unfavourably against your country.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #35 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:51:40 PM »

The Contras was a government scandal, it was perpetrated by officials long since removed from office... while other areas of the globe have been using terrorist tactics openly for years and continue to support it. We have had our black points in history... but we have righted them... it was a scandal as opposed to something supported by the entire American government.

Every country used gas in WWI... what exactly does this go to prove?

Used it in WWII too, against an enemy during a time of war against aggressor nations.

Back then there weren't guidelines as to what could and could not be used in war. Now there are, people continue to violate them, and they must be dealt with- simple as that.
-SW

Ping · « **Reply #36 on:** January 13, 2003, 03:58:39 PM »

But AKS. Alot of the people involved in funding and training the Contras are in Key points of the current administration.
Lets put that aside for the moment and say OK.
Is it then Ok to allow your allies to commit these same crimes while waging war against another Nation for perpetrating these crimes?

These Double Standards are hurting the USA's credibility and feeding Muslim Nations anger. It is a vicious circle.

Also, dont forget, there are still training camps setup and being used to train insurgents for other countries.
It was also not just the Contras but several other groups as well.

AKIron · « **Reply #37 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:13:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
Jury's out on that, Santa. Depends how it's handled... you know, it might be a gesture he knows NK will never accept. Even then, what Bush requires by way of compliance is sure to be different from Clinton's.

Besides all that... I think you guys missed the point on the other thread. There you were, blaming the NK non-compliance on Bush- then it was proven Bush had nothing to do with it. You were all happy with the Clinton plan then. Now, Bush is offering a similar twig, and it's a bad idea. Clinton did not properly monitor the situation. Bush may.

Because of the very point you are making Kieran I'm afraid you're wasting your time. I hope to never be so blinded by my agenda that I ignore the truth.

Thrawn · « **Reply #38 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:20:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
That's a far stretch to compare the use of 2 nukes to end one of the greatest wars this world has seen, to use of WMDs against your own people.

The US also used nuclear weapons against it's own citizens on several occasions.

funkedup · « **Reply #39 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:41:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
The US also used nuclear weapons against it's own citizens on several occasions.

Ping · « **Reply #40 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:48:39 PM »

Smacks Thrawn upside the head....Testing the effects of nuclear weapons on willing subjects dont count.

Erlkonig · « **Reply #41 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:52:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran

Besides all that... I think you guys missed the point on the other thread. There you were, blaming the NK non-compliance on Bush- then it was proven Bush had nothing to do with it.

I just saw your last post in response to mine, and I have to say that was not my point at all. I was simply saying that, in relation to the original topic of the thread, Bush's rhetoric was irresponsible and reckless, and is now coming back to bite him in the bellybutton while he's trying to resolve this crisis.

Quote

You were all happy with the Clinton plan then. Now, Bush is offering a similar twig, and it's a bad idea. Clinton did not properly monitor the situation. Bush may.

First off, Bush has been in office for two years, and was apparently briefed with information from the outgoing Clinton administration but choose to sit on it - his monitoring of the situation is already a matter of record. Secondly, the critics of Clintonian appeasement are now put in a strange position, now that their boy Bush is heading the same direction. Saying it's all Clinton's fault while spouting apologetics for Bush appeasement looks pretty rediculous.

Airhead · « **Reply #42 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:54:41 PM »

Funked, have you heard of Bimini? African American Sailors were given protective goggles and then ordered to face the blast so we could judge the effects of exposure to radiation.

We've also tested biological agents against our citizens but in very small doses. In the 1950s we released airborne chemicals off the coast of San Francisco and monitored hospital admissions for flu like symptoms.

Ping · « **Reply #43 on:** January 13, 2003, 04:58:08 PM »

Just to clear the air on why some of us Canadians take such an interest in this.
Canada was asked to join in the war against Iraq..not that they have the ability to do so.. So this issue does affect us as well.

Wouldn't it make sense to question everthing involved as well as motives and the whole purpose of the exercise?

I am also not so naive as to beleive that We dont have our cells operating up here. I KNOW that there are groups using Wellfare Fraud to help Finance Warlords in other countries. We have used WMD in the 1st and stockpiled them for use in the 2nd. And most importantly....Our Government F$%##@$ Sucks.
I just refuse to blindly accept what Government tells us and prefer to get the facts as to what is really going on.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #44 on:** January 13, 2003, 05:01:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ping
Is it then Ok to allow your allies to commit these same crimes while waging war against another Nation for perpetrating these crimes?

No, but do you want to find out what happens when we declare these nations that were our allies, our enemy?

Denoting certain, more friendly to the US, nations as allies of the US in that region gives it a degree of stability. The friendlier nations are easier to work with and attempt to remove terrorist groups, and allows us a bit of room to work in that region.

Otherwise, it'd be a matter of hours before the region completely destabilized and turned into one helluva war... probably ended by a couple mushroom clouds, set off by various nations in that region.

One nation in that region has been openly hostile towards the US and it's personnel in that area, and that nation is known as Iraq... and that's why we're dealing with them first, removing Saddam from power in Iraq is the first step to creating a safer Middle East.

But you're only looking at the little picture... it's far bigger than the points you are arguing.
-SW