To The Rumble Fw 190A-5 pilots

[Hristo]

 



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Stoickov
JG54 "Grünherz"

[Badger]

 

Originally posted by Torque:
Here is a training film for those LW pilots .......

Great film of a terrific fight torque. <S>

Some awesome flying as usual my friend.....

I couldn't have made that last "wing sawing" deflection shot on my best day, even if I was 30 years younger....hehehe

Regards,
Badger (Dach)

[Hristo]

 

Originally posted by Torque:

Funny tho kill message said callsign was Enemy       Doh.....duel accounts hristo

and of course they are  

Hristo, Hristos, Enemy and Stoickov have 11 kills and were killed 6 times against torque.

Brag on  


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Stoickov
JG54 "Grünherz"

[Camel]

Good golly miss molly!

Salute Nash, Kieren, Math and Cave for taking your time to help out! I had alot of fun with this!

I originaly got involved with this over the good natured banter taking place in the Hang Hirsto fight. When the idea of a 10 v 10 was suggested, I jumped at the chance to fly with Hang and his boyz. Ive enjoyed the practice sessions, and discusions leading up to this, and I have NO hard feelings over this AT ALL! I also look forward to doing it again if the Allies will have me.

Ive lost no respect for anyone, and maybe gained some in this process. Like Hang getting a litte bent, shows his loyalty and leadership qualities.

Well enough from me, Salute all involved!

Hope to do it again!

[Elvis1]

Badger:

While I agree with the points made in your post, I do hope you reconsider.  As a longtime "lurker" and infrequent poster, I believe you are one of several "Voices of Reason" in the flightsim communities of WB and AH.  These online communities would be diminished by your absence.

Torque is right (in this instance  ) there are 1000+ folks in this sim - and the real heat generated in this thread comes from fewer than 10 people. But read through the thread, for every individual who's beating their chest or calling someone names, there's another trying to be thoughtful and reasonable.

Sometimes a break does one good - but I hope you stay around.

Like RL there's more good than bad, but like RL, the bad makes all the noise and gets all the press.

In any case, thanks for all of the thoughtful,reasonable posts - they have helped to reassure many of us that all of what I just said is true.

<S>

Elvis1

[Torque]

Hristo how many were co-alt mergers          
For a low F4u to pursue a hi 109 well.....          

Hristo, Hristos, Enemy and Stoickov have 11 kills and were killed 6 times against torque.

I ran the callsigns what score board you on Hristo?maybe you had more callsigns?          
tour1 tor 6 hristo 1
tour2 tor 0 hristo 3
tour4 tor 0 hristo 1

seems you fell sort by one.            

Thx Bager btw new terrian doesn't do duel justice.That was old terrian and I was inside the canyon hristo was above.                

hristo  KPT   370    0.0009 tour2
hristo  KPT   679    0.0009 tour1
torque  KPT     4    0.0026 tour1
torque  KPT     5    0.0034 tour2

But I don't judge a man by his score, judgement comes as you watch him dive into peril to help save your butt.                 .                

of course they are                




[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 07-25-2000).]

[Torque]

My remarks are in no way directed at all ppl who fly LW Iron.I am just quoting hristo.


[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 07-25-2000).]

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by Hristo:
Toad, I don’t fly for living. I base my opinions on what I have read on WW2 air combat. So my experience is not even close to the real life pilot. But range finders ? Aiming aids ? IFF at 5 miles ? E state indicators ?

Right now a cannon Hog can BnZ from 5 miles distance, opening up at 1000 yards and hitting, due to all aiming aids. WW2 ? Nope.

As I have said many times before, I think the present icon system <in all the major online acm sims> can be improved. I do not suggest they accurately supply the information that is available in RL. They are indeed "crutches". I would like to see experimentation/improvement.

Nonetheless, the point of our disagreement on the ROE was "no icons". Nothing else.

I said then and I'll say again that presently  "no icons" is even LESS realistic than the present icon system that needs improvement.

I would take that position again in discussing ROE for any "Rumble" that uses the current AH display technology.

I won't go into "why" in this topic. I suspect it would just be another argument.

You've read your books, I've lived my life.

I feel I've made an accurate judgement. I'm not convinced you are qualified to comment on what "looks" right.

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by Yeager:
Givin the fact that the AH P51D is such a pitifully anemic vertical performer its no wonder that the 190A-5s prevailed.

Actually Yeager, the 51 has the advantage at 15K which is what our merge alt was.  The higher the fite goes, the bigger the 51 advantage is.  I've flown both planes quite a bit and although the A5 does much better between 10 and 20K than the A8 does, it still doesnt compare to the 51.  For whatever reason it was, the 51s decided to try and turn with the 190s and played right into their game.  Im sure if this were ever done again, the 51s would fite it differently.  Ask Rude or Thunder and Im sure they would agree that nose high turns at that alt play into the 51s advantages due to the 190s departure characteristics.

Someone mentioned earlier that the next time a duel like this occurs, that pilots ought to switch sides afterwards.  I think that would do wonders to alleviate any of this bragadocio we see here!    Besides, THAT would be fun  

-Ding

[Hangtime]

Sad.. ain't it. I pull 20+ good honest pilots; three CM; 4 Refs and about a gazillion spectators into an amazinhunk contest between me and Hristo.. and guess what folks.. I get that big cigar. I'm AM an amazinhunk for pullin you guys into it; for dumping on you all in all kinds of nasty ways when I lost it; and I'm gonna set it straight right here.

To all pilots; particpants; refs; CM's and spectators.. with the exception of Hristo the Braggart:

This was a horrible mistake; and my responsibilty. I had no right; no grounds for; and no excusble reason for dragging you all into this pile of dreck. I answered Hristo's challenge with an entirly diffrent agenda than yours.. and I am truly sorry for THAT as much as for it's outcome.. and this goes beyond.. far beyond the fight itself. I've insulted pilots that fly for all sides; gents that worked hard to give you a good show and kids that can't figure out WHAT the hell it is they stand for. (yeah; thats you RAM) Most are standing amazed at this 100+ post thread and wonder "Just WHAT in hell is THIS about; anyway?"

Well; I'm here to tell yah; it ain't about Allied vs Luftwaffe. It's about me; one childish and annoyed little pony boy that truly wanted the scalp of another childish and petulant little LW pilot. 2 children with a mutual axe to grind, with all kinds of little hidden agendas that run all the way back to our forefathers.

I hope I can find a way to get past this and put it behind.. and I publicly apologise for putting you all in the front row and then kickin the toejam off the stage into YOUR laps yet again. It does not belong there; and again.. I apologise for lettin my anger get a grip on my keyboard fingers.  

So.. how to fix it?? How about this:

It would seem that the Rumble WOULD have been a lotta fun had Hristo and I brought you to this under the guize of a friendly fight.. instead you were lead into something else entirely. My fault.. the only fight he'd give was a 'squad sized fight' so that's what I set about to do.. and for one reason only.. to get him in my sights again.

So.. I propose for you all a rematch.. with a modified ROE based on what Nash, Mathman, TOAD and Udie come up with as a workable format for an Allied vs Luftwaffe Rumble. As soon as is practical. And do NOT allow it to degrade into something other than what it should be... a friendly furball with no hidden agendas.

And to insure thats what you guys get, I propose that Hristo and I stay out of it; it's ROE discussion and it's development. Completely out of it. Hands off. Keyboards off. Nothin.

Hristo; let these honorable pilots and gamesmen get on with enjoying the sim.

And now; on to one little piece of unfinished buisness that needs attending to.

Hristo; I challenge YOU; mano y mano to refly this little match we just had.. just you and me. Nobody else. After all, pond scum; it's me you want; just as much as I want you. No wingies to hide behind. No rhetoric to involve others in. Nothin to prove here other than our lasting hatred and disgust. You were good enuff to lead 10 men to the last match. Now; lets just see you bring yer arrogant bellybutton right on over to ME.

Further, I demand satisfaction for trashing my associate Allied and LW pilots good names and reps with yer bullcrap boasts. Honor demands it. And, lest there be no mistake about hidden agendas.. I want yer head on the end of my spear; pronto. Plain enuff? Just you and me, soccer boy, yer a5 vs my pony. Lets see whatcha got in the cockpit to back up all that stinking superior drivel yer spouting. Lets see you engage my PLANE and not your KEYBOARD.

So.. to pick up a time honored phrase and polish it for reconsumption; Pick up the gauntlet; or get lost. You wanna demonstrate to these other honorable gentlemen (a cadre we no longer have rights to claim membership in) that you have your own set of balls; you'll pick up that gauntlet and meet me with that A5 without roadkill sidesteps, dodges or delays.  

Oh.. one other thing... did I mention yer lower than cat crap?

Hang

[Hornet]

This stinkfest reminds me of the joke of the AF guy relating a duel with a Navy squadron: "So we agreed to meet those bastards at 20k the next day...and would ya believe those dirty cheaters showed up at 25k? I swear if we hadn't been at 30 we mighta lost that fight..."

I've had a little exposure to 10v10's in the past. In my experience the pucker factor is similar to that of a scenario, except these events are characterized by such a brief, short burst of violence that nerves get a little more frayed. Unlike scenarios, there is no time for guys to work out the butterflies. So you've got 20+ guys in high performance war machines bearing down on each other. It's not surprising that ROE can go out the window in an instant. It's not necessarily that anyone intended to cheat...it's just that when hurtling towards that merge you enter the twilight zone and sometimes wierd things happen.

I do not mean to tell you guys how to throw your own party, but the event may flow better the fewer rules there are. My squad's philosophy was to turn these things into a street fight as quickly as possible. I mean who likes rules anyway? If you go in expecting utter chaos there is less chance of being surprised  .    

Anyhow...if I may suggest trying the old, "we'll meet you punks in sector X,Y. 20k ceiling. Everyone within 2k of each other. Once the shooting starts its jokers wild. Last man standing wins."

This should prevent one side from coming with a Daisy Chain formation.  

Hope you gents work this out, I think the 10v10 event has a lot of merits. We all like that rush right before the stuff hits the fan. It makes all that arena time putting up with ackstars and altmonkeys worthwhile.  

-Hornet

[Staga]

I guess I should laugh but....

Somehow reminds me of my school years when I was 10 years old...

Get over it guys. If this sim makes adult people behave like that it might be best solution if you type Format C and forget this sim never exist. Really.

[fd ski]

Why do i feel that both sides would have just let this go if it wasn't for one person trying to make "we're better then everyone else" point ?

Not exacly the first time it happend.

I don't know if Hristo is trolling or serious. he's an excellent pilot, he wiped my bellybutton in 1 on 1, but his statements erase any respect he migth have earned in my mind.

All he had to do it post "good fight guys" and it would have been over.

note to self - no BS duels.


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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[Hangtime]

LOL Hornet..

"So we agreed to meet those bastards at 20k the next day...and would ya believe those dirty cheaters showed up at 25k? I swear if we hadn't been at 30 we mighta lost that fight..."

I needed a smile.. that did it.

Hang

[Nash]

I think what we have in Hang and Hristo is the perfect archetype of the American and German fighter pilot. It's almost too bloody perfect... the tone, the words, the actions. Bless you two. I'd suggest nobody get too worked up about this. This is good stuff, if you step back, tilt yer head, squint yer eyes and give this whole thing another look.

A community is made up of characters. We've got some of the finest, most interesting characters assembled right here in Aces High... The differences help make the hobby itself interesting.... compelling....
I'm proud to be a part of it. <salute> all of ya.