To The Rumble Fw 190A-5 pilots

[Torque]

Dang i luv watching these film they are the cat's ass.Nice stuff everyone <S>

[Jigster]

 I had one of the best views of the fight, I was the last and slowest 51's bringing up the rear.

Upon seeing the intial gaggle, I went lvl/WEP (I had just at that moment hit 15k) and kinda freaked as all these 190's nosed towards me. Guns cold was a good idea. I keep heading in, a pair of 190's show up to my 2, higher then all but Ammo and Maniac from my POV. They streak past. Another pair of 190's pop up at dead 12 o'clock high. They are already engaged with 3 or 4 Mustangs that had just immeled towards the others. One of the 190's breaks right on top of me and comes rolling down. I pancake down on him, follow through his dizzying rolls putting a few pings in here and there.

 We're totally away from the fight now, just me and this 190. He keeps rollin, I wait for him to try and make me fly past. He rolls earthward and I pull up hard and roll over, he flounders and boom  

Nice flying Udie.

Ahhh first blood.

But now I'm on the deck and the fight is going on 10k above me. I start climbing up when Ammo, I believe, comes past with two 190's on his tail. I saddle up and pull through the black out and start working for the shot. Another 190 moves on my tail, I break and almost ram the other 190 when he pulls up. I blow it and lose oil and a flap. Getting desperate I scissor and this 190 that just shot me over shoots. Just outta gun range I see the other 190 on 6. I get stupid and do a huge neg G pushover. I scissor some more but rudder is the only thing workin at 95mph indicated. Few more cannon shells. Ouch me dead.

Oh well.

- Jig

[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 07-23-2000).]

[Citabria]

well its my fault the p51s lost the way they did RAM. I lead them right into the trap and got them all killed.


do you think HTC wont make the d9 a perk plane? my opinion is that they will.

[Kieren]

 

Originally posted by minus:
me and nash get kicked at last 30 sec suxx if u due this before we can go to ponys !!!
damit Co are u diletant or just incapable ?
who of u have military carer ? i see probably nobady
 so why this mesi organization :-))))
 cya  and nxt time  THInK a litle more  and FASTER ! :-)))))

Let me assure you, Hangtime, Hristo and Nash
all did their best to make this happen. Comments such as yours show an utter lack of understanding and appreciation for the work that was done before you ever showed up today.

It is a shame that things blew up the way they did. I think that, in the end, even those that are angry will see things a bit differently.

[Hangtime]

Yah; Hristo I'm pissed. And you are pond scum. You know why I'm pissed? Because you went outta yer way to hand us a screwed fight from the start... I spent quite a bit of my time trying to set this up.. and EVEN TURNED MY PLANE AROUND AND LANDED TO 'EVEN' THE SIDES.

What did you do?? Nothin but everything you could to delay it; then cried 'underdog' every minute since. Yah did nothin to promote the event; to schedule the event; to assist planing the event. You played obstructionist to the bitter end... but jumped right up and thumped yer chest crowin "Superior LW!" after it was over. My ass. Even when given the chance to simply square the pilot counts, you couldn't do that.

I asked flat out for a LW count before I turned myself around to land. Also in the textbuffer is your jovial invitation to the REAL LW for the 'interloper'. After Udie offered to boot him. Now; yer implying we sent him there. You can't count? How many DOTS did you see? I counted mine.. and turned around and LANDED. Seemed the HONORABLE thing to do. Boy; what a MISTAKE it was to think you'd fly a fair fight.

I'm purely ticked off.. watched the LW film carefully. The 2 section ROE busting merge was planned. No ponys were above 15K before the purely BS 'FIGHTS ON' call, and here; the REFEREE (Mathman) decided to run his own ROE... and none can claim it did not absolutly favor the the LW's pre merge positioning.  Further it was the LW's observer that made that call. This is BS!

Before you make any more swellheaded BS claims to victory YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO you'd best have a FAIR fight to base it on!! Same ROE; and THIS time the same number of pilots IN THE FIGHT; and BOTH observers had best by god READ THE ROE!

Duma.. this setup has been on the boards for two weeks. I did everything I could to make sure I did NOT displace or incovieneince any other event. I'm now insisting that the same courtesy be extended to any future Rumbles. Scheduling that Snapshot so close behind our event was a gawdamned mistake. In the future; it would be best to be sure Snapshots are no closer 6 hours either side of a Rumble to keep either venue from being forced off by the other.

Allied pilots & LW.. sorry fer the Rant.. but this crap really pissed me off. My anger is directed at Hristo and Mathman for blowin this thing into the crapper for us all... then refusing to refly it right there in then. My apologies for any embarassment in that rigged fight. Maybe next time we'll get the deal we came for.

Hang

[Dingy]

My God!

Listen to all of you!  The allies are whining about a merge that may or may not have been fouled up and the friggin Luftwaffe are rubbing the Allies noses in it!!

THIS is why I've taken so much time off from Aces High.  The attitudes and egos are getting just like they were in AW when it went to all you can eat.  

Whining about a friggin merge and then having the LW gloat about the victory.  I had fun....this sure spoils it.

-Ding

[Nath-BDP]

Kurt Tank would be proud.  

[Nath-BDP]

Ya lost fair and square hang, get over it and call for a rematch.

[Nash]

I gave Mathman very specific instructions. He followed them exactly. Any crap directed to him should be directed to me.

(this is bordering on pathetic)

I'm gonna just toss out this bit of advice. A battle was won/lost. The respect you engender, trust me, is *not* based on the outcome... but how you *deal* with the outcome. That fight fades - the perceptions of the people involved, less so.

Look. Bragging/whinning does nothing for either of you. No matter how at a disadvantage you feel you were, muster up the courage to salute, and plan to kick eachother's bellybutton the next time. Unless you plan on doing it next time with an army of one.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Hangtime:

Before you make any more swellheaded BS claims to victory YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO you'd best have a FAIR fight to base it on!! Same ROE; and THIS time the same number of pilots IN THE FIGHT; and BOTH observers had best by god READ THE ROE!

I simply refuse to be part of a rematch of this after seeing all these reactions.

I thought that was all a matter of hot heads after the rumble but I see I was wrong.

Hang...well I wont say anything. But I feel sad because I didnt expect this from you.

I dont feel like we cheated. I know that I saw P51s zooming away as soon as I merged them. I know we were all at 15K until fight on call was done.

I know that there were 11 of us, but I realized if AFTER The fight not before.

If you blame Hristo and you call him cheater then you are calling it to me too as I was in the same formation as the eleventh and I DIDNT REALIZE he made number 11. So Hristo, 8K away had worse problems than I do.


Anyway, enough of this. I simply refuse to take part in a rematch if the objective is  a stupid "we are better than you" . I decided to play a part in the rumble because I wanted to have fun and thought we were all there to do the same. I see I was wrong. And I am starting to regret that I flew it.

But this is a mistake I wont repeat. Rematch the friggin damned duel again if you want, but I wont be there to see the yells moans and rants I've seen this time, again.

Enuf of this crap. Going to sleep.

Never felt so much deception in AH as I did tonight.  

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-23-2000).]

[minus]

Kieren ?  what that ?
 every  thing what is in event arena is it just like today , to much chaos and who go where  waitng for 20, 30 min  doh  ???
is it hard to say in Global chanel hey Yuo lame minus go there Du this !!! ha ?
 so hard to makea decision  >?
damit
for thwe order why is not POP up just like a Training arena topic ??????
you Fly Military planes , so think with Military discipline , and i not mena Militant !!!!
anyway  about result of the rumble , the planze like P51  190 egal speed agal E agal ALt the beter win
 when any side just have a litle more ALt or E after climb above 15 after dive back ( cheat E ) is a winer no miracle :-))
Hang is a respected pony driver :-) and nota esy target and hi know wery well the Walue  of Alt E  Speed , all of u know this so Dont sig a big glory about u but be hapy u got the chance be have Advantage :-))
nice fight , ee no fight but masaker :-))

[Vulcan]

Jeezuz. Hang... chill man. Heres what I saw

 - LW had two groups (almost 3 cos udie was lagging behind)
 - at the 1st merge there seemed to be a front group of 51s and rear group
 - me and hristo were ahead of udie/beserker
 - hristo started to roll in at merge, i called hold so we could lead the ponies nose a bit
 - looking at the film right after the merge at least 4 ponies zoom hi, udie/beserker pull up towards them
 - at no point do udie/beserker have alt on the ponies, nor any sort of E advantage

Hang, whether the details of the ROE were broken or not, I think the merge was OK. LW didn't gain anything energywise.

I think what u guys up was we flew as LW really flew, split into distinctive 'pairs', with two sections. At the merge this confused the pony gang. Pretty much like the early war LW vs RAF.

Hang, what about the fact u guys hung around 22 for so long? What were u trying to acheive? Or what about the pony I chased back to 22, where I had to break off to avoid becoming flak-bait?

All in all hang the victory was decisive, I don't think what ur squeakin about would have made a huge difference.

Have a beer!

[Fariz]

Hmmmmm, I thought that war ended 55 years ago  

   
   


[This message has been edited by Fariz (edited 07-23-2000).]

[Hangtime]

Nash.. you are incorrect.. 3 counts. One; we upped 12 pilots. I asked for clairification on LW count was told '10" by YOU.

They at that time had 11 in formation; 7 in group one..

Nath11
Camo
Dingy
MooseEAF
BigJoe
RAM
Snefens

4 in group Two

Hristo
Vulcan
Udie
Berserker

Check the film. Minus rolled and was in the air also but I will not count him as I do not think he was a combatant. He was 12th LW.
Whats really screwed here as we also had 12 pilots up.. and after you confirmed 10; I handed over lead to citabria and pulled myself and CJ outta the fight and crash landed TO EVEN THE SIDES. More miscommunication. I also told you to switch to Citabria.

Further; CavemanJ decided to fly on in with a P38.. adding even more disruption. He was upped as rook I think.

Second.. the ROE you looked at and posted got yer offical okey dokey.. I have the email. What in hell possesed u and mathman to re-write it to suit yourslves at the last second in flight?? I could not have been clearer.. ALL PLANES PASS CLEAR! That was written to PREVENT a two section merge!

Third.. the ponies ALL merged. The LW DID NOT! The trail elements of the LW Section 2 were climbing and turning BEFORE THEY COMPLETED ANY KIND OF MERGE! Dammit; what in hell did you guys think you were doing calling 'fights on' before ALL aircraft had passed? The ponies reacted instantly to the call and if you'll post the screenshot from hristo's plane the second that statement appears in the textbuffer you will see that not even the first section has fully merged yet AND NOT ONE PONY IS ABOVE 15k!

Lastly.. thank you. Your efforts; as are all the others ARE appreciated. This was a trial.. and I'll not do it again once this thing is settled with a rematch. I DO think you stepped well outta bounds by re-writing that ROE in the air.. you should have NOT done that. My aplogies fer yer smooshed toes.. but dammit; that dam ROE was meant to PREVENT just what they pulled.

*Sigh*

Hang

 

[Kieren]

 

Originally posted by minus:
Kieren ?  what that ?
 every  thing what is in event arena is it just like today , to much chaos and who go where  waitng for 20, 30 min  doh  ???
is it hard to say in Global chanel hey Yuo lame minus go there Du this !!! ha ?
 so hard to makea decision  >?
damit
for thwe order why is not POP up just like a Training arena topic ??????
you Fly Military planes , so think with Military discipline , and i not mena Militant !!!!
anyway  about result of the rumble , the planze like P51  190 egal speed agal E agal ALt the beter win
 when any side just have a litle more ALt or E after climb above 15 after dive back ( cheat E ) is a winer no miracle :-))
Hang is a respected pony driver :-) and nota esy target and hi know wery well the Walue  of Alt E  Speed , all of u know this so Dont sig a big glory about u but be hapy u got the chance be have Advantage :-))
nice fight , ee no fight but masaker :-))

I do not intend this to be disrespectful- but I cannot understand what you are saying.

What I am referring to is how much preparation went into the event leading up to this day. It was quite a bit on many people's part. You were asked not to participate, that was your side's CO's call to make. I'm sorry that happened, but if everyone on both sides doesn't show, and it is supposed to be a fight of equal numbers, what else can be done?

One thing is clear to me; this should have been done in good faith with the intent of fellowship and fun. It is also clear to me that this has gone way beyond healthy bounds. Yes, the 51's were slaughtered. Yes, there are questions about how many of each side were actually there. Both sides acknowledge this. Film verifies it. That should nullify the contest and demand a rematch- if indeed you can find anyone willing to go through this again. I guess I am hoping both sides can have enough class and be adult enough to stop name-calling and either fly it again or drop it.

As for the scheduling, that must lie with me; I didn't have it on the calendar, so I must have overlooked it somehow. I do know what happened with the time (rumble 2PM EDT, yamamoto 4PM EST). At a glance it looked 2 hours apart, when it was actually 1 hour apart.