I rarely agree with Glassess

[Rude]

Wotan........................ .......Gotcha!


 

 

[Urchin]

LOL Swulfe, that is a friggin AWESOME quote.  That is going in my Sig!

 

G10 is by far the easiest to fly. In trouble? Point that nose skyward and climb like a homesick angel.

 

I do agree that the G10 is the easiest plane to live in, it is not an easy plane to get kills in though, in my opinion.  Easiest plane to get kills in, in my opinion, is the 109F4.  Slap gondolas on that puppy and TnB, you'll fool the hell out of people and rack up the kills.  Of course, a Spit will kill you at the end of every sortie, but you'll have fun flying it.

I'd rank em like this.  

Easiest to live in:
G10,D9,A5,G2,F4,G6,A8.
Easiest to get kills in:
F4,A8,A5,D9,G2,G10,G6 (I hate the G6, can you tell?).

By the way.. I don't really think it is true that you have to "think harder" in a LW plane, you just have to think differently.  I'm sure Leviathn/Todd/DMF thinks REALLY hard about how to conserve speed and energy and such, because he can get that SpitV to surprisingly high speeds (and stay there).  In most of the LW planes, you don't HAVE to think about that, the acceleration does it for you.  Instead, you have to think about angles and snapshots, and leaving yourself a way out of the fight at every second.

The P51 flies a lot like your "typical" LW plane, in my opinion.  The only difference is it is easier to hit with your guns (which, incidentally, screws my aim up royally when I hop back into a 109 or 190).

Every plane has its strengths and its weaknesses.  The Spit is just slow, that is its weakness.  Even in a 190A8, I can pretty much ignore them unless I get low and slow and they jump me (in which case I curse, then bail out  ).  The 190s can't turn for toejam, that is their weakness.  The 109G10 actually has my vote for "most well-rounded" LW plane.  It doesn't really have any weaknesses, besides a small fuel and ammo load.  I don't count the poor high speed handling as a weakness, because you can honestly get used to it and it ceases to be a factor.  Anyway, I've blabbered for long enough.

[Swager]

Real men fly the 109F4!!!

So far my favorite ride, for I get killed in it alot.

Death can be very humbling!!  

[Kratzer]

I always thought the 109s were impossibly hard to fly - and for a new pilot, I think they are.  As a result, I didn't fly them for the last year, except for an occasional buff killing mission in the G10, which mainly reinforced my thought that they were no good.

So the last two nights, I've flown the F4, G2 and G6 in an attempt to shake myself out of a nasty rut in the C.205, and I actually think they are all great... I think that the biggest difference is that my experience with flying in general, and with AH in particular, has finally gotten to the point where the plane fits the way I fly.  19 and 5 in the 109 in the last two nights... not bad for a crappy pilot like myself.

I think that the strengths of the 109 aren't as evident as in the pony or the spitfire, and as a result take bit more practice and experience to master, but once you have that, you can do equally well in a 109 as in a spitfire or a P51.

[ra]

Of all the pilots in AH, the good 109 drivers are the ones I admire the most.

I obviously don't fly the 109 much cause I always thought the G2 was the best all around.

ra

[Wotan]

I think I swallowed the hook rude......

 

[hazed-]

Well if you guys read R.shaws book on aircombat you would have read this:

'practicle aspects of the energy fight:
there are some practical considerations which complicate matters in actual combat.One of these is the difficulty of maintaining sight of the opponent.Extension/pitch-back tactics result in great distances bing generated between fighter and bogey.Additionally, the pilot of the energy fighter spends much of his time looking over his shoulder at the bogey, making visual tracking even more difficult.Looking over his shoulder also complicates aircraft control for the pilot of the energy fighter.For example, it is difficult to judge a wings-level attitude for commencing a pitch-back while looking backward.The aircrafts speed and altitude also may have to be judged by feel, since the pilot may not be able to afford to take his eyes off the bogey for a peek at the gauges.This can be hazardous during a low altitude engagements, as more than one pilot has extended himself right into the ground while looking over his shoulder.'

he goes on to say:

'Another consideration is the possibility of other hostiles in the area.The energy fighter is exceedingly vulnerable to such threats at slow speeds near the top of the pitch-back.Also since the pilots tend to concentrate their lookout along the horizon, the pilot of an aircraft manouvering verically almost assures he will be seen by nearby fighters in a wide altitude band, making an attack by unseen enemie even more likely.
 All these practical considerations present severe limitations to the use of energy tactics and make their employment even in sterile situations very difficult; they require much training for proficiency.'

so there you have it.From the horses mouth as it were.Energy fighting is harder and can be more dangerous.As energy fighting is all you can really do in most LW stuff id say they are harder to fly well.Add to that their guns dropping off at 300 yards like an elevator from the towering inferno movie and you have a sound basis for the arguement.

  your witness proscecution............

[Dinger]

Yeah, but Shaw's talking in general terms, and he has all-aspect missile-birds in mind.  As he points out, the tactics stay the same, but their effectiveness differs according to the changing technology.

In any case, he makes three arguments:
A. It's hard to maintain sight of the opponent.
Response: Not at these engagement speeds, and with this icon system
B. It's hard to look back and at the instruments.
Response: not in aces high, where we snap back and forth with ease.
C. At the top of the climb, at slow speeds, the attacker is vulnerable to third-party attacks.
Response: not given this icon system and the closure speeds of these AC.  In any case, with inflight radar, your position is broadcast to everyone.

[funkedup]

Actually C is somewhat true, but as Dinger points out, A and B don't apply here.
C is true because when you are zooming your belly is exposed to half the arena and you are blind on that side.  You can minimize this visibility problem while rolling during the zoom, but it's still a problem.  

Also during the zoom you are spending a fair amount of time way below corner speed, so if you do get bounced, you have few evasive options.  You're basically ballistic for 5 sec or so if you are really "pumping" for maximum energy.

Back on topic, Hazed's argument falls apart.  Not because LW aircraft tactics aren't limited in tactics (he's right on that) but because LW aircraft aren't the only ones limited in the same way.  

In a Spitfire, which can outrun only Zekes and Hurricanes at most MA engagement altitudes, survival requires keeping a significant energy advantage over any bandits.  Which dicates B&Z or Pitchback/Extension tactics if you are interested in survival.  A good Spit stick can turn and kill plenty of them, but once the (rather small) ammo supply is depleted it's time to run.  And unless Joe Spitfire has a significant initial energy advantage, something like 75% of planes in the MA can run him down with ease.

Whereas a La-7 or Tempest or Yak-9U can risk duking it out and still have a hope of extending from co-E bandits because of their incredible acceleration and top speed.  Even if they make a mistake they still have a chance to escape.  So they can use a broader array of offensive tactics without forgoing a safe RTB.

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[hblair]

G6 is a fun ride, been playing with it lately..
 

More 109 stuff here....

[Voss]

It has been said there are only two sure things in life (i.e. death and taxes). Whoever said that never met some of the guys that whine nightly on open channel.

Online there are two quite different certainties.

1) Nightly you will hear how Bishops and Knights gang up on rooks (Whine).

2) Nightly you will hear how American Iron is portrayed with such a significant advantage over LW Iron (Whine).

This has become so regular, and so certain, that not only can you set your watch by it, but you can quote the authors beforehand.

[AKSWulfe]

Each plane has a style of engagement and disengagement. A way to fly it in, kill, and get out. It varies versus each plane. Naturally, some planes do it better than others- but once you learn those two principle factors, killing and surviving becomes second nature with that ride.

Learning each plane has it's benefits, in that in your primary or favorite ride, you can better understand how to engage and when you need to disengage.  

As far as weapons go, having a lot of experience in both planes armed with the Browning M2 .50 and the MG151/20 in AH, I can say with certainty that when you understand the trajectory and flight path of the two rounds that killing with either is very easy.
-SW

[hblair]

Not all LW guys are whiners, but most are!  

[gatt]

When I fly a Brownings armed fighter I can easily deflection-shoot at 800yds. Everytime I say WOW!   Very fun. AcesHigh then becomes a completely new simulation.

When you usually fly axis and are tired of AcesHigh, then take an allied fighter and go hunting. Its .... uhm ... relaxing  

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: gatt ]

[Eaglecz]

Originally posted by Sachs:



AGJV44 has Fw 190A-8 56 kills Died in Fw 190A-8 14 times
Wotan (squad mate) has Fw 190A-8 45 kills and died in Fw 190A-8 10 times.

If i will meet them with my friend in 2 on 2 they will be pretty dead .... k/d still mean nothink
I will no more fly 190A8 after big week due to 10 mins until you get some altitude... average glidder climbing better  

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: EagleC ]