Author Topic: Powells speech so far...  (Read 6427 times)

Offline Siaf__csf

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Powells speech so far...
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2003, 02:03:29 PM »
Umm Boroda how long ago did you leave Russia?

I'd take American 'occupation opression' anytime over the Russian paradise.

:rolleyes:

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2003, 02:10:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target

So Boroda, the poor NK army was forced into taking Seoul within 3 days of those darned SK aggressions?

LOL


Its almost as good as "Powell and Scharwzkoft were against ousting Iraq from Kuwait".  Entertainment at its finest. :)

Offline JimBear

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Powells speech so far...
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2003, 02:11:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Wow Boroda you still cannot accept that you NK communist buddies invaded SK in an attemt to opress its people and force them to live under communism...


No No No,  you misunderstand. They were just trying to extend the friendly hand of Socialist brotherhood..


Next thing ya know we will hear how '68 was just a group hug for the Czechs
« Last Edit: February 05, 2003, 02:14:19 PM by JimBear »

Offline batdog

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Powells speech so far...
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2003, 02:15:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
There hasn't been a declared war since WWII, including the first Gulf War.

AKIron, the Taliban WAS the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban soldiers WAS members of the armed forces of a nation state. They were captured while defending their nation from a US/UK/Norwegian/Swedish etc. etc. etc. invasion. The Al-Qeada fighter were indeed terrorists, but the Taliban soldiers were part of a regular army and should have been granted POW status. No matter how much the Taliban regime supported terrorism. These men were defending their homeland.

Will Iraqi soldiers captured be granted POW status? Will they be labeled "unlawful combatants"? If so WHY? If not WHY? What is the definition of an "unlawful combatant"?


Uhh... Actualy I think a Uniform and some sort of organisation is required under the GC. Most didnt have uniforms..and had no clear chain of command. This made them irregulars I'm thinking. They where handled pretty civily actulay because a guy you capture who is outta uniform and has been fighting you can be excuted.

I'm not real sure about all this...been a long time.

xBAT
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2003, 02:15:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Umm Boroda how long ago did you leave Russia?

I'd take American 'occupation opression' anytime over the Russian paradise.

:rolleyes:


A guy from Angola? Salute!

Studied here? Where? People's Friendship?

Are you sure that UNITA could be better then MPLA? I can admit it could be, but it's not obvious.

JFYI: I didn't leave Russia. It's not a paradise, but it's MY country.

Tell me one plain thing: were there any Soviet troops in NK in Summer 1950?

TahGut: again, you have sources only from one side. After reading some correspondence between Soviet Foreign Ministry (not Stalin!) and Kim Ir Sen I came to a conclusion that USSR was against that war.

Offline Erlkonig

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« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2003, 02:15:56 PM »
Oh come on!  We all knew Powell had this card up his sleeve:


Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2003, 02:17:24 PM »
No worries Bat, Borado's just pissed because the former USSR couldn't do toejam in 10 years of illegal occupation of that country...we cleaned it up in a couple months.

Offline bounder

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« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2003, 02:18:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ

How dare the USA impose democracy and freedom on people?

Fair point Grunherz, fair point. Can't say I can answer it though.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2003, 02:25:50 PM »
Quote
TahGut: again, you have sources only from one side. After reading some correspondence between Soviet Foreign Ministry (not Stalin!) and Kim Ir Sen I came to a conclusion that USSR was against that war.


I wouldn't argue that. I would bet that the USA wasn't in favor of having a war either. That is all beside the point though.

No matter where my info comes from the time frame to Northern occupation of Seoul is not in question.

Now try to make so called Southern aggression make sense with actual Northern occupation. Hard to stretch the facts that far.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2003, 02:56:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
TahGut: again, you have sources only from one side. After reading some correspondence between Soviet Foreign Ministry (not Stalin!) and Kim Ir Sen I came to a conclusion that USSR was against that war.


Funny how you point to sources from the "other" side as if nobody would actually take the time to look them up to call roadkill.

Well, I looked them up and call roadkill.  Here is a fascinating website that documents and translates direct communiques between North Korea and the USSR during the period 1949 to 1950.  Let's look at some of the findings.

First, to answer your assertion that a North Korean attack came as the result of South Korean aggression (LOL!), the paper has this to say:

Quote
It is interesting that the Soviet ambassador confirms the
interception of South Korean attack orders but notes that no attack occurred.  Other documents in this collection show that through June 1950, North Korean leaders repeatedly claimed to have intercepted offensive orders from the South, even though the attacks did not materialize.  Some of these interceptions could well have been genuine, since South Korean leaders in the months before the war often expressed their desire and intention to reunify the country through military means.  However, if Stalin had made an attack from the South a necessary precondition for a North Korean military action, the steady stream of such reports is more easily understood.


So let's see... Stalin denies initial North Korean requests for permission to invade South Korea unless they are attacked, and out of the woodwork come dozens of reports of impending South Korean attacks that never materialize.  Shocker!  I wonder why South Korea would "suddenly" become an aggressor state to North Korea when aggression was the one pretext required by Stalin for invading them.  Put two and two together, Boroda.

Next we find that:

Quote
Document #3 also suggests that by 11 September 1949,
following the withdrawal of U.S. forces from South Korea in June,
Stalin had warmed to the idea of a military campaign in Korea, at
least on a limited scale.


So as early as 1949, the USSR warmed to the idea of military conflict to reunite the Korean peninsula.  Why was Stalin opposed to a war of aggression right away?  Well, because recently declassified communiques between North Korean and Soviet officials show that:

Quote
Document #5, the Politburo decision of 24 September 1949, confirmed the response Shtykov was ordered to make to Kim Il Sung’s reply for an offensive military action.  One should note that the Soviet leadership did not question the goal of bringing the rest of Korea under DPRK control; the issue was only whether the attempt to do so would bring disadvantageous results.


In other words, Stalin was in favor of a North Korean offensive so long as it would come at little cost to the USSR or its interests in the region.

I'm curious, Boroda, how you could possibly read such evidence and conclude to the contrary that the USSR supported a North Korean invasion of the South.  Seems to me like you're selectively picking and choosing what you read with the expectation that nobody here will take the time to check your facts.  Now, I fully expect a response from you explaining that the website I posted misinterprets/translates the first person communiques, or how it's hopelessly mired in Western biases.  I expect no less.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2003, 02:57:53 PM »
Baroda is like our own little commie propagandist, spewing the most ridiculous crap and (this is the best part!) he believes it.

Comedy gold!!

Offline BigGun

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Powells speech so far...
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2003, 03:26:00 PM »
Does anyone real think the US decision makers really care if some third world country decides to support. Regardless of security council, whether Russia veto, China veto, or whoever, US is going to do what needs to be done.

Offline ygsmilo

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« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2003, 03:28:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
What did he say? I'm curious.


I think he said "guess whos not coming to dinner"



A Man-Made Famine raged through Ukraine, the ethnic-Ukrainian region of northern Caucasus, and the lower Volga River region in 1932-33. This resulted in the death of between 7 to 10 million people, mainly Ukrainians. This was instigated by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin and his henchman Lazar Kaganovich. The main goal of this artificial famine was to break the spirit of the Ukrainian farmer/peasant and to force them into collectivization. The famine was also used as an effective tool to break the renaissance of Ukrainian culture that was occuring under approval of the communist government in Ukraine. Moscow perceived this as a threat to a Russo-Centric Soviet rule and therefore acted to crush this cultural renaissance in a most brutal manner.

http://www.infoukes.com/history/famine/

Offline devious

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Powells speech so far...
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2003, 04:23:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Really?  Another one of those "it never happened" crowd eh?

Perhaps you have another explanation on why a country the size and importance of Germany was conspicuously denied a voting seat on the Security Council?  


Boroda,

Russia MIGHT abstain, but I gauruntee you that they will not veto.  

Wab


Nope, I don`t deny the atrocities commited by germans in WW2. However, that`s 60 years ago, and even without stating the current population was for the most part not even born then, the germans in general are not willing to start that toejam again.

As for not having a vote, well history may be the reason. Other than that, we`re not a military power to be considered ATM. I still cant take that all-germans-are-nazis roadkill you`re giving me.

Americans all but wiped out the "Native Americans", you recall that. Should I base my argument on that ?

Offline Rude

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Powells speech so far...
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2003, 04:23:47 PM »
That's my Morale Officer....cheering us all up!

:)