Complete Military history of France

[Hortlund]

Hmpf

I think my french-are-cowardly-bastards-post was wayy better than this one.

[Dowding]

Deny your involvement all you like. It won't change the facts.

Thanks. And I will. I was born in 1978 - perhaps I ought to pay you reparations for my historical sins? Mea culpa.

No matter. Let me put this to you. When slavery was abolished in the British Empire, there was no civil war. There was no mass uprising. There was no civil unrest. The prosperity of the Empire increased in the years afterward. So I suggest that the American Civil war was not solely about slavery - therefore to level the blame solely on Britain via slavery, is to not only twist historical fact but also shift the blame from the US politicians of the time to a nation that had had nothing to do with the US for nearly a century.

So who was really to blame? The US administration at the time (and those preceeding it) or the British government several thousand miles away?

[straffo]

Originally posted by kbman
Straffo,
            Je crois que le mot tu veut utiliser est "evolve" et c'est vrai peut-etre mais ils ont beaucoup de compagne avec cette problem.

kbman

Frenglish at work

[CyranoAH]

Spanglish is waaay classier than Frenglish :D:D:D

Daniel

[Dowding]

Quisiera una habitacion con ducha por siete noches, por favor. Deme una kilo de manzanas y seis latas de cervercas.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Dowding
... - therefore to level the blame solely on Britain via slavery, is to not only twist historical fact but also shift the blame from the US politicians of the time to a nation that had had nothing to do with the US for nearly a century.

my 2 cents...

The blame for slavery is is shared by many nations, brought to the americas by at least England and Spain, if not numerous others.  

These countries inherited slavery from Rome, and Rome from societies predating.  Many ancient societies enslaved those who were captured during war.

The American experience:

Though tensions between North and South were building for a few decades, the US civil war was sparked when South Carolina ceceded from the Union due to the election of Abraham Lincoln, a politician who had previously said that the nation cannot endure half slave and half free.

The Southern economy and much of its social order were built upon the foundation of slavery, and the South was unable to see a future without it.  South Carolina ceceded to keep the status-quo, i.e. to keep slavery.  The rest of the Confederacy followed suit.  

Though states rights versus the rights of the federal government was noted as a cause of the civil war, that cause was intimately intermingled with slavery.  The US Civil war was about slavery.

To say one country's history is morally superior because it abolished slavery first is a fallacy, because the superior history would be not to have had slavery at all.

[beet1e]

Dowding, I can tell that the community is overdue for another of my America threads.  

But Mr. Toad is right, and in view of what might take place in the next few weeks, now is not a good time. But can you now see why I wrote those threads? You have yanks, pissing all over other countries at random; So far, the recipients of their golden showers have been the French, the English, the Dutch, the Japanese - to name but four countries. They get away with it because of one thing - numbers. A bit like an AH gangbang. And they come away feeling so smug and self righteous. And from time to time they need to be reminded that actually, no - not everything in America is perfect.

What cracks me up is when I write one of those threads, and people say I'm talking total bollocks and it's not worth reading etc., but if you check the number of times read, I can easily get past the thousand mark.

Animal!  

[Dowding]

To say one country's history is morally superior because it abolished slavery first is a fallacy, because the superior history would be not to have had slavery at all.

That's not my point at all. I'm merely pointing out that if the 'evil Empire' could do it, why couldn't the Land of the Free do it at its inception? Afterall, it was a new beginning and a 'break from the old'. Why the need to blame Britain for continuing the activity when the US was a sovereign nation?

[Holden McGroin]

Jefferson, a slave owner, wanted to write abolitionist language into the founding documents.

The southern colonies would not allow abolition, so a compromise to hold the 13 colonies together resulted in the original form of the constitution.

The Civil War was in a sence the last battle of the nation's birth.

Political compromise overcomes the ideal in many circumstances.

[Toad]

The thirteen colonies....... English colonies....... allowed the institution of slavery just like their mother country.

This particular discussion started with Hawk220's oversimplification of American attitudes towards slavery and mistreatment of the American Indian.

I merely added historical background, pointing out that slavery was created and institutionalized LONG before those 13 colonies ever became the United States. It was abolished here a short 25 years after it was abolished in the enlightened Motherland at a very great cost through a Civil War. As McGroin pointed out it was, primarily, a peculiarly Southern institution. Research will show that of all the former colonies, the Southern ones clung to their overseas roots in society, manner, dress, habits, etc., far longer than the Northern ones.

As for the genocide of the Native American, those peoples were being cheated, lied to, stolen from and "ethnically cleansed" almost from the day Columbus landed. Research will again show that the overwhelmingly huge majority, a majority measured in tens of millions throughout North and South American, had already been either displaced or "cleansed" long before 1776.

These are simply historical facts. Those of you that would cast them as attacks on a particular country are showing your bias.

Particularly given the comments made by some of people in this thread that excuse their remarks about the US so diffidently and easily. Apparently you laundry men don't like to see the dirty laundry of YOUR homeland aired out on the neighborhood line either, eh?

[udet]

this is funny as hell, and almost true

[MrBill]

Gosh guys, give the poor French a break.  
I mean how many country's have lost a war with Mexico!

Hay Driver, theres a extra five in it for ya if ya run over a skunk.

[Angus]

WTF is all that french bashing about? This is completely tacky.
So shame on you!
Well, the French had their sour moments, but so had everybody. The French also had their good hours, that are not mentioned in the header of this thread. Going that far back in history, where is Charlemagne for instance?
Do not forget as well that France was a formidable military power for hundreds of years. They had the finest cavalry in the world for a long time, and at the time of Napoleon, no nation was the match for the French army.
To add insult to injury, mentioning the French as bad performing and "saved" by the Americans in WW1 is nothing but rubbish. The French did no worse than the English, and when the Americans came around, the course of the war had already taken a decisive route. The Americans in WW1 however never were subjected to horrors in the magnitude of Verdun for instance, where with incredible losses, the French held their ground.
How would the Americans feel if somebody posted a thread named "the worst military screw-ups in history", mentioning Pearl Harbour and the Philippines at the top? Maybe I should put up such a post, - surely would be a flamefest compared to the humble french reaction in this thread.
(would also be a nice way to sway and hijack this thread, hehehe)
BTW, I am not French.......

[Hangtime]

BTW, I am not French.......

rats... had my ass-kickin boots on too...

[miko2d]

Tarmac: And as for the American Revolution, I'm grateful for the help they gave us.  We needed all the help we could get.

 Otherwise we would have had to end slavery 50 years earlier and still would have ended up oppressed like Canadians adn Aussies...

miko