Author Topic: Yet another reason to love the French. (Read 904 times)

Habu · « **on:** February 06, 2003, 07:00:45 PM »

Since Straffo has gone quite on this and since most people do not read to the bottom of a 50 reply thread, I will repost something here from another thread that may be of interest to our British friends. The bold text at the end is the most interesting part.

From

Air & Space Power Journal - Fall 2002

DISTRIBUTION A:
Approved for public release; distribution is unlimited.

Argentine Airpower in the Falklands War
An Operational View

Dr. James S. Corum

Snip

The pilots of the 2d Escuadrilla, trained in France in 1980–81, were fully qualified with the aircraft. However, at the time the conflict in the Falklands began, only five of the Super Etendards and five Exocet missiles had been delivered from France. The Common Market nations and NATO immediately initiated an arms embargo on Argentina, therefore halting the French shipments of planes and missiles. Throughout the conflict, the Argentine government tried desperately but unsuccessfully to obtain more Exocets on the world market. Argentina would have to fight the war with only five Etendards and Exocet missiles. Since spare parts for the Etendards were cut off by the NATO arms embargo, the FAA decided to hold one of the five fighters in reserve and use it for parts to support the remaining four aircraft.

The Argentinians had no previous experience with antiship missiles, and the Exocet was a complicated and cranky weapon. The Argentinians experienced a lot of trouble fitting the Exocet launch system and rails to the Super Etendards. In November 1981, Dassault Aviation, owned by the French government and builder of the Super Etendard, sent a team of nine of its own technicians (and some additional French Aerospatiale specialists) to work with the Argentine navy to supervise the introduction of the Etendards and Exocets. Although France complied with the NATO/ Common Market weapons embargo, the French technical team remained in Argentina and apparently continued to work on the aircraft and Exocets, successfully repairing the malfunctioning launch systems. Without the technical help and collusion from the government of France—Britain’s NATO “ally”—it is improbable that Argentina would have been able to employ its most devastating weapon.18

18 Christopher Chant, Super Etendard: Super Profile (Somerset, England: Winchmore Publishing, 1983)., 48–49.

hawk220 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2003, 07:35:03 PM »

holy jebus..how many were lost on the Sheffield?

Habu · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2003, 07:44:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hawk220
holy jebus..how many were lost on the Sheffield?

The British lost 20 men on the Sheffield which was almost 10% of all their casulties (236) for the war.

Hangtime · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2003, 08:24:33 PM »

How can you possibly expect the French to behave like anything other than...

..the french.

"someday, all this will be yours...."

"what? the curtains??"

wulfie · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2003, 11:14:02 PM »

Sorry to go off topic but 2 of my favorite stories from the Falklands:

1. The British EOD guy who had a 500 lb. (?) bomb go off basically in his face in the bow of a British warship. He woke up alive on the stern of the warship...somehow. That guy must worship the proper God(s).

2. The Royal Marine who told the story of hitting the beach via IB, just as an Argentine aircraft attacked the frigate/destroyer/etc. that they had deployed from. Said aircraft flew over the warship after it's attack and then (unknowingly) right over the Royal Marines. AA guns on warship kept tracking and firing on aircraft. Royal Marines watch in horror as huge geysers from AA shells come screaming in a line right for them on the beach. His comment later was something like "I always knew it would be the Golly-geen Royal Navy somehow. Imagine that - sail halfway around the world to join up in a dangerous invasion and I end up getting killed by my own damn Navy."

Mike/wulfie

Dowding · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2003, 12:31:24 AM »

I'm from the city the ship was named after.

I don't hold any grudge against French people for that incident.

SFRT - Frenchy · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2003, 01:33:02 AM »

Habu, if you had more knowledge on the subject, you would know that we were also selling a jaming system of the Exocet to the British.

Hortlund · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2003, 04:19:08 AM »

Yeah, that sure improves the image of the French...selling equipment to both sides of the conflict. Anything for a quick buck huh?

Well, I guess playing both sides guarantee you a seat at the victor's table afterwards...

straffo · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2003, 04:29:57 AM »

Sorry for the english readers but due to the my lack of knowledge for English insults I'll use french.

steve :
Va te faire eclater la marguerite connard

J'en ai plus que marre de ton sale comportement de suedois suce boule.

HABU your not improving, you've even have trouble understanding your own language ...

Quote

Although France complied with the NATO/ Common Market weapons embargo, the French technical team remained in Argentina and apparently continued to work on the aircraft and Exocets, successfully repairing the malfunctioning launch systems.

it's neither a proof nor a fact.

Hortlund · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2003, 04:52:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
Sorry for the english readers but due to the my lack of knowledge for English insults I'll use french.

steve :
Va te faire eclater la marguerite connard

J'en ai plus que marre de ton sale comportement de suedois suce boule.

This is getting rediculous. Cant you at least try to express it in english? Like "your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries".

Since I dont understand one word of French, the alleged insult is pretty lame, and you just appear yet even more childish.

"Now I will insult him in a language he doesnt understand hahahaha"

But "boule" is that sport where you're supposed to throw big balls as close to a small ball as possible right?

bounder · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2003, 05:37:52 AM »

The British certainly received more support from the French during that conflict than from the USA.

Sad fact is, Sheffield was perfectly well equipped to defend herself from an Exocet attack anyway. She died because the officer charged with protecting her from air attack was crucially absent from his command when the Etendards were spotted popping up onto radar.

If Reagan had seen fit to assist with AWACS it mght well have been a different story. But the Military Junta in Argentina was aggressively anti-communist. Much to the delight of the US Administration.

Grudges are for other people.

(Heh, hortlund, if only you did speak french

)

beet1e · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2003, 05:56:26 AM »

Yes Bounder, and didn't the US (Reagan) also vote with Argentina on the issue of sovereignty of the Falklands? It was at the time of the 1984 US election campaign, and Reagan wanted to woo the Hispanic vote.

Hortlund · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2003, 05:58:42 AM »

Didnt the Americans supply the Brits with the latest Sidewinder missiles before they went to war?

AIM-9L or something like that, the first Sidewinder with working front aspect targetting ability, something that ensured British air superiority in the area despite them only having Harriers.

Dowding · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2003, 06:04:48 AM »

Yup Hortlund. Without the sidewinders, we would have had a very difficult time.

straffo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2003, 06:16:29 AM »

the Brit were having AIM9L (given in emergency by the USA) when the Argentinian got the old and porked AIM9B.