French Navy Saved America

[Rasker]

In the context of the current and temporary disagreement between our two governments, we Americans should remember that the victory of Admiral DeGrasse's squadron (over Rodney and/or Hood) at the Battle of the Virginia Capes ensured the isolation and capture of Cornwallis' army at Yorktown, which in turn produced the British decision to concede American independence.  I can't think of any other loss by the British Navy which turned out to be so decisive.  The heavy spending by the French government in the war contributed to later troubles and perhaps the French Revolution.

[SLO]

tst tst rasker......shouldn't talk about "TRUTH"

[Udie]

yeah we paid them back in the early 1900's you may remember.  

 Then we put one in the bank in the 1940's you may remember that also.

 Then we made a long line of deposits from the 50's to the 80's.

 Time for france to pay up....

[Fishu]

France came to help yanks with their independence and in WWI and WWII France was attacked and US came to help them.

Now USA is requiring the french to join in their aggressor forces.
I don't see USA being in a danger where the french needs to come to help.. I only see USA wanting to attack Iraq and be the aggressor.

Bit different issues going on here?

[Hangtime]

Significantly diffrent issues. If France choses not to participate, and voices a diffrent opinion.. hey we may not like it, but thats no big deal.

Threating to or in fact placing French Military or technical support elements in Iraq to assist saddam is a helluva lot diffrent than objecting to our cowboy presidents ride to Iraq. This puts french fingers on the triggers of french missiles pointed at our men at arms.

In my mind thats treachery. Not Diplomacy.

[Habu]

Originally posted by Rasker
In the context of the current and temporary disagreement between our two governments, we Americans should remember that the victory of Admiral DeGrasse's squadron (over Rodney and/or Hood) at the Battle of the Virginia Capes ensured the isolation and capture of Cornwallis' army at Yorktown, which in turn produced the British decision to concede American independence.  I can't think of any other loss by the British Navy which turned out to be so decisive.  The heavy spending by the French government in the war contributed to later troubles and perhaps the French Revolution.

You know little of the history of French US relations over the past 50 years. The US is wakeing up the fact that France is not that concerned about the US's problems and is more concerned about the power the US wields.

[john9001]

the french that helped america back then are all dead , the new french have no courage for war.

[lord dolf vader]

jesh is it totaly stupid patriotic bufoonery week? i missed the memo.

great efforts wow.

[Toad]

Originally posted by john9001
the french that helped america back then are all dead , the new french have no courage for war.

OK, that's enough.

Standby for an illumination round.

[Toad]

This is posted in another thread, but it bears repeating. Put "The Revolutionary Road" into Google if you want all of it from the source.

The Washington-Rochambeau Revolutionary Route -What it is about.

The Washington-Rochambeau Revolutionary Route stretches across Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia and on the return trip, Massachusetts. Much of the route is on the original colonial post roads. Therefore abandoned sections of the route are often also the oldest existing stagecoach routes in America.

The route was used by the American Continental Army to deploy troops in more than five military engagements, including the successful battle to drive the Redcoats out of Rhode Island.

That victory made it possible for the French to land an army at Newport, Rhode Island to join us in our fight for American independence. It took a year for the French army to purchase the necessary horses and forage for the military campaign in America. During that time George Washington waited anxiously as our Continental Army dwindled to less than 3,000 troops and America teetered on the brink of bankruptcy and defeat.

When General Jean Baptiste Donatien de Vimeur, Comte de Rochambeau's French Army transported their artillery across the American states to Yorktown, not many people were aware that the hardships of the war and disease were taking their toll. There were French and American graves all along the route.

The route commemorates a Franco-American campaign to immobilize the Redcoats in New York City and lay siege to their main Southern army at Yorktown. A decisive intervention of the French navy, under Admiral de Grasse, drove the British Navy from Chesapeake Bay, and trapped the Redcoats at Yorktown, Virginia.

Rochambeau joined forces with General Washington on a forced march to Yorktown. Additional French troops and heavy siege guns were landed near Yorktown to help lay siege to the British enclave. Total French army and navy forces grew to 19,000. As the fall harvest was completed and the news of the march of our French allies spread, the American Army swelled to almost 9,000.

Fifteen Redcoats were to perish for every one American soldier before the British surrendered in that final battle at Yorktown, ending the American Revolutionary War. The French casualties at Yorktown were 50% greater than those of the Americans. The French documents show that more than 2,000 French foot soldiers gave their lives in the fight for American liberty, and if sailors and other support are included, over 4,000 of the French perished at our side. And just as General Eisenhower allowed General DeGaulle to liberate Paris, General Rochambeau declined the sword of Cornwallis and allowed General Washington claim our liberty at Yorktown.

Let us also remember that the American Revolution had many allies, allies from every major European country, of every continent, and of every race. It was the French who coordinated with the Spanish and Dutch and lead that allied and very diverse army and navy under the French flag to help liberate the US. There is no question that we owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to the French, and it is time that we show our gratitude by honoring their sacrifices by making the entire Washington-Rochambeau Revolutionary Route a national historic trail. Britain may have fathered America, but France was the midwife that brought America into life[/u].

John9001, you are acting EXACTLY like the ingrates that do not remember/appreciate the US contributions to freedom around the world.

We OWE the French. Period.

If you want to trash them now and forget the debt........ you anger me as much as those Euros that choose to trash the US and forget that debt.

In fact, you anger me MORE. I expect that from them, to a certain extent.

I expect an American to be more appreciative of those to whom we owe thanks for help in gaining our freedom.

I don't agree with the French at this moment. That's not unusual for me at all.

But I'll be d*mned if I'll forget what they did for us and what we owe them.

[john9001]

you are confusing the french people with the country of france.

the french that helped the US 200 years ago are NOT the same people that live in france now, Rochambeau and Washington are long dead,

history is history, but now is now and todays french do not like to fight no matter what the cause  "peace in our time"

[Toad]

Won't wash, John 9001.

How many WW1 vets are left alive?

How many WW2 vets are left alive? How many of those left alive actively influence US politics/foreign relations?

By your standards, we're "NOT the same people that live in the US now"; Pershing and Eisenhower are long dead.

You've become your enemy. You act like those you attack.

It's unbecoming and ungrateful.

[rc51]

LOL

[Hangtime]

Dunno.. heard two refrences to this possibility on two diffrent news shows. Appears to be unfounded rehtoric and wild supposition. I hope it is.. however, some doubt remains. Got this from the BBC site:

France 'facing both ways on Iraq'
 
Tough question: Chirac may yet change position
  By William Horsley
BBC European affairs analyst  
 
 
French President Jacques Chirac, heading into a crucial summit with the UK, is publicly opposed to war in Iraq - but in fact is keeping his options open. France would like to preserve its special ties with Iraq.

The signs are that if it comes to war, French national interest would dictate it would take part
 
It has the closest trade links with Iraq of any country in Europe. Some 5% of French oil imports still come from Iraq.

And the big French oil firm TotalFinaElf hopes to win valuable contracts in Iraqi oilfields whenever the current international sanctions are lifted.  

As French Prime Minister in the mid-1970s, Mr Chirac personally cultivated a special relationship with Iraq and its leader, Saddam Hussein.

In past years, French firms built a nuclear power plant at Osirak near Baghdad, which was attacked by Israel in 1981.
 
A second Security Council resolution could bring France into the war. The French have also sold the Iraqis fighter aircraft, missiles, radar and other weapons systems worth an estimated $25bn.

This long-term relationship would be put at risk if France were to take part in a US-led war against Iraq.

Mr Chirac did not speak of economic interests last month when he tried, with Germany's Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, to forge a policy against the use of military force in the name of Europe as a whole.

He said the United Nations weapons inspectors must have more time, and that there was "so far" no justification for using military force.

His Foreign Minister, Dominique de Villepin, implied that France might veto a new UN resolution authorising war.

He said the government would go "all the way" to defend its stance. Early in January he ordered the French armed forces to be ready "for any eventuality".

France's nuclear-powered aircraft-carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, with a powerful battle group, is now reported to be setting sail from Toulon for the eastern Mediterranean. And France's Defence Minister, Michele Alliot-Marie, has said that French forces will be "ready to intervene" in Iraq if the decision is taken.

She added that it could take as little as two weeks for them to be on a war footing. The signs are that if it comes to war, French national interest would dictate it would take part.

---------------------------

Frances active support of Argentine Exocet deployment during the Falklands war is telling. I'm seeing a very similar relationshiop w/ Iraq now. Scary, ain't it??

[john9001]

too bad france has to lose it's aircraft carrier