Author Topic: Biggest Display of Public Ignorance in British History  (Read 1143 times)

Offline beet1e

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Biggest Display of Public Ignorance in British History
« on: February 16, 2003, 04:22:35 AM »
Springfield,IL 1980: ”So I figure the best thing we can do right now is to get on in there and get him outta there!”

Those were the words my surgeon used to sum up my condition the day I went to hospital with abdominal pain. I had acute appendicitis. I could have taken the view that the appendix is in no way connected to the heart, the lungs, the brain, and therefore of no real threat to my general health. That would be the kind of blinkered thinking that we saw on the streets of London and other major cities yesterday. However, the abdominal pain had reached such intensity that there was no decision to be made. Of course I didn't enjoy being prodded, poked, injected, tube shoved up nose and down throat, anaesthetised, cut open, stitched up, deprived of food & shower for 5 days. Small price to pay. The fact is that I had only about two hours left before unpleasant things would start to happen, and without surgery I would almost certainly have died – do your own Google search for peritonitis.


I find it almost unbelievable that so many people, including large segments of the media, fail to see the writing on the wall. One “newspaper”, The Daily Mirror, published this picture of a young Iraqi boy on its front page.



FFS!!!! Do they REALLY believe that this young boy’s best interests lie with a continuation of Saddam’s vile regime? I wonder how many people on the streets of London have ever sat down and talked to Iraqis about what it’s like to live with Saddam in control. How many of us here have done that? I am not disdainful of the marchers, but I feel they are uninformed to say the least. Most of them have no clue about the extent of Saddam’s tyranny. Here is a man who has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people – either directly by means of nerve gas, or indirectly by starvation owing to the way he has reacted to sanctions imposed as a result of his own hostility. Many have been tortured and executed. But oh! The Daily Mirror feels that it’s in everyone’s best interests for Saddam to remain in power. :rolleyes:

The anti-war protesters think that millions will die in an armed conflict. I disagree, but the Public has a short memory. In 1991 when Saddam was tackled, there were bombs, there were missiles... but I never heard of any incidents involving “millions of civilian casualties”. One cruise missile did go astray, and seven civilians died. This and other incidents like it are unfortunate, but that is war. These casualties are far fewer than the numbers that will die if Saddam remains in power. There was an unfortunate “friendly fire” incident, and about 30 service personnel died when their dining area was hit by a Scud missile.

I said the Public has a short memory. They do not remember 1991, and it seems some struggle to recall Sept. 11th, 2001. One could take the view that this happened in America, and was not connected with the rest of the world in any way. :rolleyes:

The Powell speech and other texts are free for all to see and do not need to be repeated here. The objective of al qaeda is to kill as many Americans and other westerners as possible. We will not lessen their resolve by appeasement, or by not going to war with Iraq. Saddam and OBL (if he is still alive) have their differences, but that would not stop them from doing business together in the fullness of time. Maybe Saddam hates OBL, but he hates us more.

So I figure the best thing we can do right now is to get on in there and get him outta there!

Offline Dowding

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Biggest Display of Public Ignorance in British History
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2003, 04:31:37 AM »
That's the Daily Mirror, Beetle, edited by the famous Piers Moron... err Morgan. No-one with half a brain takes him or his rag seriously and there are far more truthful reasons for not going to war than he inaccurately portrays.

Your arguments stem from humanitarian concern. Frankly, who gives a shreck. To use humanitarian concern for a reason to go to war is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. AFTER Saddam was gassing the Kurds, AFTER Saddam was using chemical weapons daily against the Iranians, we still sold him chemical weapon precursors and the means to make those weapons. We knew precisely what he was capable of but couldn't care less about humanitarian concerns because it was politically expedient to do so.

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The anti-war protesters think that millions will die in an armed conflict.


And you can distill it all down to that one particular statement? There are many reasons why people think war is a bad move.

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The objective of al qaeda is to kill as many Americans and other westerners as possible. We will not lessen their resolve by appeasement, or by not going to war with Iraq.


What is the connection between Al Queda and Iraq? In comparison, I can bet it is stronger between Saudi and AQ. There are camps in Saudi used for training AQ operatives, but we hear little about this. I wonder why.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2003, 04:40:38 AM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2003, 04:38:09 AM »
Dowding, try to argue the points instead.

Offline blitz

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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2003, 09:39:01 AM »
Hats off to those who crowded London to express their feelings about an upcomin war that is decided a year ago in pentagon.


Regards Blitz



America is threathened by Iraq in no way , it's just plain rediculous.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2003, 09:48:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
What is the connection between Al Queda and Iraq? In comparison, I can bet it is stronger between Saudi and AQ. There are camps in Saudi used for training AQ operatives, but we hear little about this. I wonder why.


I think it's a mistake to assume that the Saudi link is being overlooked. I'm not suprised we hear little about this.

There isn't a "one size fits all" approach to the various countries for numerous valid reasons.

We hear little about it because the work, instead of going on in the world media like Iraq, is being done quietly and secretly through diplomatic channels.

IMO.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think the greatest fear in the Middle East region is a "free" Iraq with a democratic election process. It has to make the unelected rulers squirm.


Note to Blitz:

Iraq has been in violation of the disarmament agreement for 12 years. So what does a war planning date have to do with anything at all?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline sling322

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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2003, 10:17:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by blitz



America is threathened by Iraq in no way , it's just plain rediculous.


yeah...yer right.  Iraq prolly doesnt have the capability to hit the US with any type of weapon right now.  Ever stop to think that maybe the US has the interest of other nations and the world in mind?

Nah...I guess its easier to just bash 'em

Offline blitz

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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2003, 11:53:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by sling322
yeah...yer right.  Iraq prolly doesnt have the capability to hit the US with any type of weapon right now.  Ever stop to think that maybe the US has the interest of other nations and the world in mind?

Nah...I guess its easier to just bash 'em



That's it, it's no hot situation at all. No need to let the bombs rain at this point. Iraq is on it's knees. It isn't even able to feed his people.
Military strengh is very weak after Desert Storm.

That's the reason why some people don't want a war at this point.

We can still do a lot of things before.

France showed the way in UN Sicherheitsrat.

Regards Blitz




America is threathened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2003, 12:02:16 PM »
"That's it, it's no hot situation at all. No need to let the bombs rain at this point. Iraq is on it's knees. It isn't even able to feed his people"


What does not feeding your people have to do with being a military threat or manufacturing WMD?

Offline Seeker

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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2003, 12:15:22 PM »
Beetle,

I'd hope few, very few Brits are ignorant of the fact the Saddam is a pox on his nation, and well past his sell by date.

As are many, many other regimes our Government has supported through the years.

I think you'd even find a surprising number cognisant of the fact that he should be removed.

I think you miss the point.

The point is there's a huge wave of feeling that refuses to follow Bush into war, on his time table, to his agenda.

I think the Americans are missing that point too; they tend to think it's an anti-American movement, when it's an anti-Bush movement.

We were told Al quadah was responsible for WTC; and we understood and supported the Americans need to lash out at the perpetrators of an outrage; especialy when they said they have proof.

But they've never shown us the proof.

Then it shifted to "a war on Terrorism"; at the same time Bush was fermenting a coup in Venezuala.

Then it shifted to a war on Iraq; though no one's ever shown how Saddam was responsible for WTC.

Now any one who doesn't support Bush is a "world traitor".

Now some are calling for the return of the House unAmerican affairs comitee.

Doesn't that worry you at all?

What makes you think a million marchers are less informed than yourself?

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2003, 12:23:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker

What makes you think a million marchers are less informed than yourself?


The fact that they were out there marching is evidence enough...

As for arguments like that, let me just say this:
Millions of flies eat toejam...can they all be wrong?

Offline Udie

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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2003, 12:44:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blitz
Iraq is on it's knees. It isn't even able to feed his people.




 You just can't grasp the obvious.  Iraq is totaly able to feed it's people. Saddam WON"T feed them.  Take a look at the picture of that starving child at the top of this thread. THAT"S why this must be done you whoopeeed ignorant appeaser.  That's what saddam gives his people.  How many pallaces has he built with the "oil for food" money that FRANCE gives him, knowing that he takes it for himself and starves his people.  

 You people make me sick....

Offline Toad

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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2003, 12:47:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker
at the same time Bush was fermenting a coup in Venezuala.

 


Your support for this accusation please?

Chavez himself first came to power via a coup, did he not?

Looks to me that right now the population is pretty evenly divided....... hard to believe Bush managed that.

You don't suppose half the Venezualans have just decided "it's time for a change" again? It's not like tossing out the leadership isn't somewhat common there.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline blitz

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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2003, 12:57:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Udie
You just can't grasp the obvious.  Iraq is totaly able to feed it's people. Saddam WON"T feed them.  Take a look at the picture of that starving child at the top of this thread. THAT"S why this must be done you whoopeeed ignorant appeaser.  That's what saddam gives his people.  How many pallaces has he built with the "oil for food" money that FRANCE gives him, knowing that he takes it for himself and starves his people.  

 You people make me sick....



Sorry udie can't buy that.

Bush wants to go to war with iraq abusing UN, abusin Nato, that's not the right way.
Doesn't help to calling me or my country names or theathen it, it's just my opinion whether ya like it or not.

Regards Blitz

I don't say we're the better people, were just  6 millions people demonstratin that they really feel uncomfortable with bush politics.


America is threathened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous.

Offline sling322

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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2003, 01:07:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blitz
Bush wants to go to war with iraq abusing UN, abusin Nato, that's not the right way.
 


So now its the US abusing UN sanctions and not Iraq?

I sure am glad we have you to set us all straight blitz.  :rolleyes:

How hard is it to understand that we need to disarm Iraq?  Period.  Until that is done, nothing can be done for the starving people there.  If disarming them includes removing Saddam then that is what has to be done.  Nobody wants war to happen, but if something isnt done about Saddam thumbing his nose at UN sanctions then its just a matter of time until he decides to use a chemical weapon on someone again.....the only question then is will it be on his own people or on some other people of the world?

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2003, 01:08:09 PM »
Ok, I surrender.

Give me the same terms France is giving Saddam, please.

I'd rather be a rich apologist, swapping Arms for oil, than a poor Iraqi dictator idealist, supplying oil for food.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.