These planes should be in AH2

[Rutilant]

Hurri D prolly would be effective if the guns were firing simultaneously and carried AP. Both guns firing separately cause a rediculous amount of yaw, making it hard to hit a B17, let alone a tank.

SM79 and a decent  - attack aircraft, pure fighter, and hvy bomber for each of our current countries - before any more allied bombers.. then a B25 with alllll the loadout options would be nice..

[Sakai]

Originally posted by Rutilant
Hurri D prolly would be effective if the guns were firing simultaneously and carried AP. Both guns firing separately cause a rediculous amount of yaw, making it hard to hit a B17, let alone a tank.

SM79 and a decent  - attack aircraft, pure fighter, and hvy bomber for each of our current countries - before any more allied bombers.. then a B25 with alllll the loadout options would be nice..

B-25 served too far, too wide too many variatiants to not serve, but aye, all those otehr planes first.  And a seaplane.

Sakai

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Desl0ck
..the only thing AH-2 MUST have....
is a siren for the stuuuuka ..awwwrrooooooooooooooooooooo ooo!!!!!:D

Hopefully with ToD we'll eventually see an early model Ju-87 with the siren but I'd rather have a D-5 with wing mounted 20mm cannons or a G-1 with 37mm Flak 18 cannons on wing mounted gun pods.


ack-ack

[vorticon]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
At the very least, the Allied bomber plane set should be further fleshed out with the B-24, B-25, A-26, Halifax, Wellington and any other Allied bomber that saw action, since bombing is going to be a major part of AH2.  It also stands to reason that the Axis countries should also have their bomber plane set added to as well.


Ack-Ack

anymore fleshed out and people will be putting pictures of the aliied bomber plane set on the wall

Hurri D prolly would be effective if the guns were firing simultaneously and carried AP. Both guns firing separately cause a rediculous amount of yaw, making it hard to hit a B17, let alone a tank.

ive used the d guns succesfully...and dont work as well as they should (5 pings to kill a a6m...)

[Desl0ck]

..can we have a single .50 cal mounted in the door of the C-47.....for purely defensive purposes...naturally...

[AVRO1]

Originally posted by Sakai
Well, kind of but not really.

I think like 700 were shipped to the Russian front to use as cannon platforms because they wouldn't bomb with them and the plane was basically detested by the Germans after years of trying to make it work.  The design was horribly flawed and they only made 1000 because they could, not because it was an effective bomber.  It was possibly Germany's stupidest WWII aviation move (that and delaying the 262 fighter development ot make it useful as a divebomber).   It had modest use as a missile dorpping anti ship plane, not much and not as much as the Do-217 as best I recall.  


They had, as best I can tell, one raid that was successful wit them as a bomber against industrial targets in Russia and one odd raid at london where a few of the planes in the raid that did not catch fire and turn back divebombed haphazardly and fled.  Brady has all these "what if" ideas about the 177 but basically it was the worst plane program in Germany.   If everything worked on it it flew quite nicely by all accounts but by that standard of measure we should include the two stage superchager on a 1941 P-39 model because that was the best way for it to perform.  At some point you have to say "come bloody on."


D0-217 far and away a more realistic choice.  Since this is fantasy la-la land, who cares, model the worst POS ever designed in Germany, but in a simulation striving for some representation of historical accuracy two of your three formation buddies in the Greif would be combusting sometime between engines on and a few miles from base.  

Sakai

The problem with it was engine cooling which could have been solved by replacing its two twin engines with 4 separate one.

Which would have given germany a bomber with performances close to the B29 a few years before the US.

Politicians wanted it capable of dive bombing not the designers.

The designers could have solved the problem if they had been given free reign of the project.
Instead they were told to do impossible things.

How is that a flawed design?

The He177 was a great design that wasnt given a chance to shine by politicians who did not understand what it could and could not do.

[Sakai]

Originally posted by AVRO1
The problem with it was engine cooling which could have been solved by replacing its two twin engines with 4 separate one.

Which would have given germany a bomber with performances close to the B29 a few years before the US.

Politicians wanted it capable of dive bombing not the designers.

The designers could have solved the problem if they had been given free reign of the project.
Instead they were told to do impossible things.

How is that a flawed design?

The He177 was a great design that wasnt given a chance to shine by politicians who did not understand what it could and could not do.

How is it a design flaw?  Well, the cooling problems did arise out of the design of the twin nacelle no?  I mean, you can say it would have been "better" as a 4-engined plane, and that's accurate but I have a hard time swallowing the "poor engineers, it was forced on them" mantra since really if they knew it was tinkering beyond capability of the design they might have started with a new design.  This is what happens when 1) politicians and not engineers try to amend design changes and also 2) what happens when engineers are so in love with work already done that they stubbornly refuse to can it in favor of . . . .(drumroll) . . . .

a better design.

I mean, it was one design over the other, one design is tragically flawed the other not.  It doesn't matter who demanded it, it is still a design flaw.  Heinkel apparently knew it from the get go but he refused to give up on the 177.  Seems to me honest engineers sometimes have to say "no, we need an entirely new design."

Plane was also too heavy which was hardly due to any changes in the specs.  

Sakai

[MAJ KONIG]

I would like to see the B25H with the 8 .50 & 75mm oh boy I am getting all excited agian.

[AVRO1]

Originally posted by Sakai
How is it a design flaw?  Well, the cooling problems did arise out of the design of the twin nacelle no?  I mean, you can say it would have been "better" as a 4-engined plane, and that's accurate but I have a hard time swallowing the "poor engineers, it was forced on them" mantra since really if they knew it was tinkering beyond capability of the design they might have started with a new design.  This is what happens when 1) politicians and not engineers try to amend design changes and also 2) what happens when engineers are so in love with work already done that they stubbornly refuse to can it in favor of . . . .(drumroll) . . . .

a better design.

I mean, it was one design over the other, one design is tragically flawed the other not.  It doesn't matter who demanded it, it is still a design flaw.  Heinkel apparently knew it from the get go but he refused to give up on the 177.  Seems to me honest engineers sometimes have to say "no, we need an entirely new design."

Plane was also too heavy which was hardly due to any changes in the specs.  

Sakai

It was too heavy because it was reinforced for dive bombing.
Which wasnt the designers' idea.
It was a political decision that was bad for a plane of that size.

The engineers were prevented by politicians from making it with 4 seperate engines which would have fixed most of its problems.

Heinkel kept with it because he could not do what he wanted and the plane needed improvements.
He had no choice.
The plane did not work properly so he tried to fix it.
Make sense to me.

The He177 never had a chance in a country that did not want 4 engine bombers.

[Albacore]

How about the japanese rocket-powered baka bomb. That way, all the suicide afficianadoes that must currently resort to fully loaded jugs could finally have the weapon of their dream.....

Bring on the hateful responses.

[Sakai]

Originally posted by AVRO1
It was too heavy because it was reinforced for dive bombing.
Which wasnt the designers' idea.
It was a political decision that was bad for a plane of that size.

The engineers were prevented by politicians from making it with 4 seperate engines which would have fixed most of its problems.

Heinkel kept with it because he could not do what he wanted and the plane needed improvements.
He had no choice.
The plane did not work properly so he tried to fix it.
Make sense to me.

The He177 never had a chance in a country that did not want 4 engine bombers.

Well, kind of.

See, the problem is that Heinkel and his engineers had to build a plane to the military's specifications.  That is to say, the military doesn't have to have an He-177 with 2 engines, they simply need an airplane with certain characteristics.  At some point, the engineers should have said "we can't get there from here".

They never did.  The 4 engine plane was called the 277 as I recall.  

See the problem with that whole "it is all politicians deciding" thing is that the Military, not Heinkel, identifies the plane's needs.  Germany's military felt the air arm should support the troops more than engage in strategic bombing.  Clearly they should have developed both capabilities.  But Heinkel hanging onto that design for that many years simply because he could was as silly as saying this design should do things it was never designed to.  At some point, the engineers have to say "no" and move on.  They kept trying to make it into a different specification.  

Bottom line is the plane sucked as built and has no place in this game because for all intents and purposes it never flew effectively.  For all its flaws the Italian P108 had a better record albeit in smaller numbers.  Geez, the Petlyakov 8 was a more successful plane on many levels, shouldn't we have it instead? I mean it served into the 1950s in the Soviet Union.  

Model the Do217, it was Germany's most effective heavy bomber.  Also the excellent He-111, Il-4 and the SM-79 and Cantz1007.  We also need  the Wellington and the Pe-2.  But I digress.

Sakai

[6GunUSMC]

B-29... I have other wishes, but a B-29 should be a shoe-in!

[Nilsen]

See below for list.
Thank you for your attention.

[Sakai]

Originally posted by Nilsen10
See below for list.
Thank you for your attention.

You know, it would be quite simple to model the flight and handling characteristics of the JU52, just try the old Air Warrior P-47D model.

Sakai