US dirty tricks to win vote on Iraq war

[Hajo]

Straffo I apologize.....got the wrong paper.

[Toad]

Originally posted by blitz
You are willing  to sacrifice as many iraq people as it needs to.

To any normal person this appears as the purest horse dung.

It really weakens your argument but then without it you have no argument at all, do you?

Originally posted by blitz Go deal with your allies first and stop them torture

 

Please do tell me which of our Allies has a record that even begins to approach the genocide, murder and torture practiced by Iraq under Saddam Hussein.

Your attempt to divert the discussion from the true issue, Iraq, continually fails. The issue at hand before the UN SC is IRAQ. It there's other countries that need the attention of the SC, why doesn't Germany put forth a resolution?

Originally posted by blitz
 to be Al Queida members and stop torture them too.

Absolute horse manure as well. Put up some documentation; otherwise it's just more of your "I read it on a poster" debate posture.

[Nash]

"Also.......you think after the war France and Germany want the UK and US to display records that show them supplying Iraq with banned equipment?"

I doubt that info will ever be made fully public. And it's not just France and Germany that would be worried about it.

8,000 pages of the 12,000 page Iraqi weapons declaration were censored out before being made available to the press - at the Bush admin's request. It's not hard to guess what kind of information those pages contained. Nobody in the UN had a problem with keeping that particular lid sealed... as there are skeletons *everywhere*.  

In fact, only Germany leaked details of those pages, naming corporations in its own country that supplied Iraq with WMD producing equipment.

Scotland's Sunday Herald also managed to publish extracts, and  among the firms named is International Military Services, a commercial branch of the U.K. Ministry of Defense.

I have no idea when this stuff was shipped (pre or post Gulf War), but the point is that nobody's hands are clean, and for the time being at least, nobody seems eager to get this info out.

[Hajo]

Nash your probably right.  I would want to know.  If the US did it I would be very much angered to say the least.  And if Germany, France, etc. did so I would also be angry.


The definition of a Politician is one who makes deals.  I don't like that a bit.  No deals....just represent your constituents and country without making any "deals"

If records are found I am sure "political deals" will be made.

Great for the politicians........not very beneficial for the constituents.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by straffo
It was Washington time not the post.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030307-545570.htm

Repeat a lie 10 time and it became true.

No offense straffo but it's blatantly obvious IF anyone were to bother checking, that Frances objections to current events is based entirely on Frances business interests in Iraq.  Has nothing to do with anything else at the root... although "war is always bad" is an easy crutch to lean on when trying to make the point.

[straffo]

Perhaps Tumor ,I don't know ,but don't you think this article is full of hypotheses and what if ?

If it happen that my country broke the embargo I'll be the 1st to be in the street to ask for some head (french tradition you know ).

But until proven guilty there are innocent no ?
(at least in my legal system I don't know how work your).

[Tumor]

Originally posted by straffo
Perhaps Tumor ,I don't know ,but don't you think this article is full of hypotheses and what if ?

If it happen that my country broke the embargo I'll be the 1st to be in the street to ask for some head (french tradition you know ).

But until proven guilty there are innocent no ?
(at least in my legal system I don't know how work your).

Again, no offense Straffo but, (always a but lol), the French do not have the best, as a matter of fact a have horrible track record in thier dealings with "allied" interests in Iraq.  It's all based on economics I'm sure, and it's quite unfortunate that many (most) of these reports are based on leaked intelligence... something we'll all have to wait upwards of 20yrs for declassification before the meat of the information is available for debate.  The media is always going to report the best they can, be it biased, fact based or hypothesis (another economic issue I'm sure), so we're stuck with what we've got.  If the "war" ever kicks off, I'm fairly sure many "truths" will come to the forefront of our media... until then, we just have to check the facts as they become available.

[straffo]

Sure, we have more than starnge customer but I'm not selling the weapon and we need to sell weapon for money.

Currently as there is a pissing contest between USA and France I trust neither US nor French sources of information they are both biased.
Leaked information is a tool you know


We just have to wait to know (perhaps) the truth.

[blitz]

Originally posted by Toad
To any normal person this appears as the purest horse dung.

It really weakens your argument but then without it you have no argument at all, do you?

 

Please do tell me which of our Allies has a record that even begins to approach the genocide, murder and torture practiced by Iraq under Saddam Hussein.

Your attempt to divert the discussion from the true issue, Iraq, continually fails. The issue at hand before the UN SC is IRAQ. It there's other countries that need the attention of the SC, why doesn't Germany put forth a resolution?



Absolute horse manure as well. Put up some documentation; otherwise it's just more of your "I read it on a poster" debate posture.

You're absolutely right Toad, i have not the slightest argument but

lots of people have and ya can't buy them all, sorry

But i have good news for ya Toad, you will get your war and if all nations outside the USA were against it.

And now get your M-16 outa your cupboard, go outside, go to the tree in your garden where ya pint that picture of Osama Bin Laden, get him in the sights and pull the trigger. Feel better now?
Fine


Regards Blitz


America is thretened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous


Un insectors are against Bushs war, Pope is, National Council of Churches is, the bischop of the United Methodist Church ( Bush and Cheney join them) is, half of the world is.
And you come here and tell me that all about a war in Iraq is cristal clear.?????

[Toad]

You're wrong again, as usual blitz.

I don't support it without UN Security Council sanction.

Tell me which one of these points you disagree with:


1. There can be no doubt that Iraq is not complying with the UN sanctions. Even France, Germany and Russia agree on that in the SC.

2. There can be no doubt that Hussein has defied the UN SC for twelve years on disarmament. France, Germany and Russia agree on that in the SC too.


3. There can be no doubt that Hussein is one of the absolute worst dictators currently tyrannizing his own people in the world. "Genocidal maniac" is a highly accurate term when applied to Hussein.

4. There can be no doubt that the world AND the Iraqi people would be better off with him out of power.

5. There can be no doubt that it is ONLY the presence of a massive Allied military organization on his doorstep that is responsible for the minor disarmament that he does agree to do.

6. We BOTH agree that military force should not be used without UN SC sanction.

[blitz]

Originally posted by Toad
You're wrong again, as usual blitz.

I know about it, my girlfriend tells me every day

I don't support it without UN Security Council sanction. [/B]

OK, i don't like it at all but with SC sanction i can live with it at least.

Tell me which one of these points you disagree with:


1. There can be no doubt that Iraq is not complying with the UN sanctions. Even France, Germany and Russia agree on that in the SC. [/B]

Never said any different

2. There can be no doubt that Hussein has defied the UN SC for twelve years on disarmament. France, Germany and Russia agree on that in the SC too. [/B]

No problem to agree with that, he's a smart- prettythang

3. There can be no doubt that Hussein is one of the absolute worst dictators currently tyrannizing his own people in the world. "Genocidal maniac" is a highly accurate term when applied to Hussein. [/B]

Halt, here we differ. He was your friend for a long time and he wasn't any better than now. To be true he was much  worse and so it's not up to the USA to claim high moral grounds now.

4. There can be no doubt that the world AND the Iraqi people would be better off with him out of power. [/B]

It's a soverein country and ya won't find UN article about regime change. So how the hell Bush has to decide for them?Again Toad, deal with your ugly friends in Kuwait, Sauth- Arabia, Agypt, Pakistan and other first, then im convinced.

5. There can be no doubt that it is ONLY the presence of a massive Allied military organization on his doorstep that is responsible for the minor disarmament that he does agree to do.[/B]

Fully agreed by myself with ' It's only the massive military organization'.
 The only problem is that Bush and his crew were drivin with 90mph on the war road long ago when in fact 45mph was aloud for safety reasons.
Now, there's no way back as he will loose next election in 2 years if he doesn't go to war with Iraq, it's a one way street he choose with his propagada war. It's sad

6. We BOTH agree that military force should not be used without UN SC sanction. [/B]

Yes

Regards Blitz



Hope that toejam drives by very soon, want to fly not to write

[Toad]

Originally posted by blitz
Halt, here we differ. He was your friend for a long time and he wasn't any better than now. To be true he was much  worse and so it's not up to the USA to claim high moral grounds now.

[/b]

You're just dodging the question. It isn't about who's friend he was.. .heck, we were allied with Stalin too. It isn't about the US claiming the moral high ground either.

What it is about is Hussein. He IS one of the absolute worst dictators in the world currently tyrannizing his own people. "Genocidal maniac" is a highly accurate term when applied to Hussein.

Now, without ducking the question and going off on a tangent, do you agree that he's a genocical dictator? Because the evidence is there, particularly in the Anfal against the Kurds.
 

Originally posted by blitz
It's a soverein country.

Again, don't go off on a tangent. Iraq is the issue and the continued violation of the terms they agreed to at the end of Gulf War I is what is leading Saddam to "regime change". If he complied with the terms he agreed to, this wouldn't be happening at all. Focus on where the cause really is.

The question is "will the world and the Iraqi people be better off without Hussein as a leader". The answer, from any rational assessment, has to be yes. We're not arguing the "legalities" of removal here, but just the simple question "will they be better off". Even you would have to admit they'll be better off, I think.

So, how about addressing those two issues directly instead of hiding from them?

[Tumor]

Anyone catch Larry King last night?  Some guy from Irbil, Iraq called in... that guys opinion of Saddam was not exactly good, and the possibility of liberation was quit positive actually (lol).

....I wonder if he survived the night.

[Nash]

The thread that wouldn't die!!!

Well, it turns out it was true after all. But like Dinger said, "What's the use of state espionage if you're not going to use it in exactly these circumstances?" So I'm not sure what the big deal is.

--------------------------
A British intelligence employee is under criminal investigation in connection with the leak of a National Security Agency memorandum calling for stepped-up eavesdropping on countries whose United Nations Security Council votes on Iraq could be crucial, police reported.

The investigation of a 28-year-old female employee of Government Communications Headquarters, known as GCHQ, appears to confirm the authenticity of the NSA memo printed last week in The Observer, a British newspaper.

An NSA spokesman declined to comment yesterday.

Inspector Richard Smith of the Gloucestershire Constabulary said the GCHQ employee, who lives near the agency's complex in Cheltenham, England, was arrested Wednesday and held overnight at a police station before being released on bail Thursday.

Smith said the employee, whom authorities declined to name, has not been charged but is being investigated "on suspicion of contravening the Official Secrets Act," the British statute protecting sensitive intelligence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-te.nsa11mar11,0,2413578.story?coll=bal-home-headlines


Thanks snag and AGW for the update. Now for a little trip down memory lane.

"This is a phony story published in a Leftist rag." -  Cabby

"You people are a diddlying joke. You guys will believe anything anti-American." - Yeager

"LOL! I just can't believe anyone believes that document." - MiniD

[Lazerus1]

Originally posted by takeda
"The United States is conducting a secret 'dirty tricks' campaign against UN Security Council delegations in New York as part of its battle to win votes in favour of war against Iraq.
Details of the aggressive surveillance operation, which involves interception of the home and office telephones and the emails of UN delegates in New York, are revealed in a document leaked to The Observer.
"
....

"The leaked memorandum makes clear that the target of the heightened surveillance efforts are the delegations from Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Mexico, Guinea and Pakistan at the UN headquarters in New York - the so-called 'Middle Six' delegations whose votes are being fought over by the pro-war party, led by the US and Britain, and the party arguing for more time for UN inspections, led by France, China and Russia."

http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html

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