Author Topic: Yanks; sometimes I wonder...  (Read 2208 times)

Offline StSanta

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« on: March 03, 2003, 11:37:58 AM »
why when the going gets tough, it is so easy to hate countries with the same democratic structure who disagree with the US policies?

I've read a lot of posts now. Mostly, it boils down to this:

'Americans are true badarses when we are pissed. No one should stand in our way then, because we're pissed. You're either with us or against us. We're pissed. We keep the world free and fair and are mostly altruistic, whereas Europe is a continent full of ungrateful nations with people wearing clogs or leather, or possibly clogs made out of leather. And Europe isn't pissed like us. We saved their tulips when the Zeppelins were dropping mustard gas during WWXI on French cyborgs. F*cking Eurorutabagas are trying to stop the war on terrorism - the arrests are just a coverup. Euros love Saddam Hussein and everyone not in favour of the war are in favour of Hussein. We're pissed and irrational - therefore we are right'.

Or:

'We're the mightiest nation on earth and we have 250 different kinds of toilet paper, including really fluffy stuff. We don't need the UN and Europe with its puny economy can go to hell. UN only has one kind of toilet paper and the European economy is centered around providing arse wiping material to 'um. We don't need anyone, except the ones we do need. Europe has never supported us despite everything we've done and we'll now boycott everything not made in the US. Except the toilet paper from abroad, we'll need that. The upcoming war against Iraq is about the war on terrorism and the very fact that we don't have any evidence connecting Saddam to Al Qaeda is proof of that connection'.

Ok, it is exaggerating, but still. I cannot believe that otherwise intelligent people leave their brains as soon as something with some passion is being spoken about. They don't even bother to check the facts; Spain is in Europe. UK is in Europe. Denmark is in Europe. Same with former Soviet 'colonies'.

And that is what I find insulting - our government has taken an unpopular stance (in DK) and supported the US in every possible way. AWACS to guard US skies when the US AWACS went to Afghanistan. Peacekeepers in Afghanistan, some of which were killed. F-16 fighterbombers dropping eggs on Al Qaeda. Special forces to guide them. Still Eurorutabagas never helped.

Our government now says; the US will have support for war against Iraq if the war is in accordance with the Rule Of Law - i.e through the UN. This doesn't mean Denmark hates the US or is against the US  - or rather it does, according to the Bush 'either with us or against us' doctrine.

Also the UN is seen with extreme skepticism, since it is a hindrance to absolute US power. It seems some Americans find it annoying that for a war to be internationally legally sanctioned, it has to be UN sanctioned. When the UN isn't quickly enough adapting the US position, it is blasted. Hell, even then it is blasted; seen as an annoyance that stands in the way of the US. There is a lack of understanding about why the UN exists and how it works.

What I'd kindly ask for is less trashing and more content. Also it'd be nice if blanket statements such as 'Eurorutabagas' were dropped in favour of more accurate, geographically precise names. I'd also ask for a ratio of 5:1 trashing/content: you get five Euro-trashings, but then have to provide one line of substance.

To put it in a way so that those involved will understand it; yer current way of arguing isn't winning anyone over and to an objective observant, there's very little differentiating your style of posting and logic from that of for instance Straffo and blitz. You think they come off as fanatic nutters? Not only them, matey.

Who's next for the soap box?

Offline Ping

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2003, 11:40:27 AM »
Why should we listen to a request from a Europopsicle
 
 
 
 
 
:D
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline AKIron

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2003, 11:42:17 AM »
I found myself agreeing with ya only to be disappointed when you confessed to exageration. Who can argue with fluffy toilet paper?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Ripsnort

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2003, 11:48:34 AM »
{Sniffs...gag reflexes begin again...swims away}

Offline Swoop

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2003, 11:49:28 AM »
Real good post Santa.


So instead of a Europopsicle can I call ya a Danewuss? ;)


Offline Ripsnort

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2003, 11:51:56 AM »
Q: Why do Danish people never play hide and seek?
A: Nobody wants to look for them.

A Danish airplane was getting ready to land in Stockholm's airport. The control tower contacted the pilot and asked for his position. The Danish pilot was surprised and didn't do anything. Again the control tower contacted the pilot. "Please tell us your position." Then the pilot understood and answered: "Here I am in the front seat, as always..."

The Danish man had a problem. His wife was coming home on the train but he could not remember if she was coming at 8:40 or 4:80.

Offline midnight Target

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2003, 11:54:03 AM »
That is "Boiled Down"???

:eek:

Offline StSanta

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2003, 12:30:51 PM »
That's more like it! Much better chaps!

And Ripsnort, the pilot dinnae understand the question because Stockholm is the capital of SWEDEN and the ATC was speaking SWEDISH. :D

Gotta find my battleaxe. Am growing a beard.

Offline hawk220

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2003, 12:35:50 PM »
ok..NOONE can argue that US toilet paper is worse than Euro bog roll.. I had to remove splinters from my bellybutton the first time I took a pinch over there:eek:  if anything..we are kind to our tulips here.

Offline Swoop

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2003, 12:47:53 PM »
Irrelevant Hawk.

Here we use the British Army method of wiping ones arse:



Take 1 sheet of bog roll (any design) and tear off 1 corner.
Make a whole with your middle finger through the middle of the remaining sheet.
Wipe arse on finger.
Use bog roll sheet to clean finger.
Use previously torn off corner to clean fingernail.

I get through one bog roll about every 8 months.



Offline lazs2

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2003, 02:12:49 PM »
and i shook hands with the guy!  glad I'm not a nail biter.
lazs

Offline Toad

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Re: Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2003, 03:03:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta
Also the UN is seen with extreme skepticism, since it is a hindrance to absolute US power. It seems some Americans find it annoying that for a war to be internationally legally sanctioned, it has to be UN sanctioned. When the UN isn't quickly enough adapting the US position, it is blasted. Hell, even then it is blasted; seen as an annoyance that stands in the way of the US. There is a lack of understanding about why the UN exists and how it works.

 


Some substance:

We know how the UN works. We were instrumental in its design, funding and execution.

Overall, I don't think we find it a bit annoying that a war needs to be sanctioned by the UN SC.

What we find annoying is:

1. It's highly unlikely that any governement with a decent intelligence service has failed to realize that Saddam:

     a. Has some serious WMD and is working on more including nukes

         1. and has near totally ignored UN sanctions for over 12 years

         2. Even now at the last moment he's dragging his feet on disarmament and not fully cooperating

     b. Has already demonstrated that when the spirit moves him he WILL invade his neighboring sovereign states

    c. Is an out and out bastige to the citizenry of Iraq
     
         1. he's ruined agriculture to the point that 60% of Iraqis live on UN food handouts

         2. he tortures and murders his own citizens... in fact killed his own son... and will torture a child to get the parent to talk

        3. has engaged in genocide against the Kurdish minority

2. Nonetheless, knowing all of these things, a few countries sitting on the UN SC refuse to acknowledge that there is a need to remove Saddam and will not sanction US action even though they're not being asked to contribute militarily


We understand quite clearly how the UN is supposed to work. We don't understand why it is NOT working like it should right now. The world would be a better place without Saddam feverishly working to build nukes. IRAQ would be a much better place for its citizens without Saddam building statues of himself while his people starver.

That, I believe, is a more accurate reflection of the view from here.... at least on my part.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline bigUC

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2003, 03:46:11 PM »
Zyprexa makes confusion go bye-bye :D
Kurt is winking at U!

Offline 10Bears

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2003, 04:33:46 PM »
But Toad, some of your spin points are being refuted these days..

a. Has some serious WMD and is working on more including nukes

Not according to Gen. Hussein Kamel who in 1995 told U.N. inspectors
that Iraq had DESTROYED ITS ENTIRE STOCKPILE of chemical and biological
weapons and banned missiles, as Iraq claims.
site: http://www.msnbc.com/news/876128.asp
Glen Rangwala's analysis of the Kamel transcript:
http://middleeastreference.org.uk/kamel.html

1. and has near totally ignored UN sanctions for over 12 years


Not to have a double standard or anything but what does the U.S plan to do about the 65 U.N sanctions Israel has violated?

2. Even now at the last moment he's dragging his feet on disarmament and not fully cooperating

They keep raising the bar.. he started destroying the missiles, now they want Saddam to leave the country..

b. Has already demonstrated that when the spirit moves him he WILL invade his neighboring sovereign states

No. Last 12 years he’s been contained.

1. he's ruined agriculture to the point that 60% of Iraqis live on UN food handouts


So we should feed them cruise missile hand outs?

2. he tortures and murders his own citizens... in fact killed his own son... and will torture a child to get the parent to talk

U.S had the moral high ground on that. See POW treatment at Gitmo-- Patriot act etc.

3. has engaged in genocide against the Kurdish minority

Another spin point refuted by the CIA!.. Kurds got caught in crossfire of battle btwn Iraq and Iran.

2. Nonetheless, knowing all of these things, a few countries sitting on the UN SC refuse to acknowledge that there is a need to remove Saddam and will not sanction US action even though they're not being asked to contribute militarily


If George Bush goes ahead with this attack, he could be indicted for crimes against humanity. Sanctions could be placed on the U.S!. Bush could cause a world wide depression worse than he already has..

BTW Toad, are you familiar with "The Project For The New
American Century"? No?.. here have a look at their web site http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Quote
PNAC's stated aims are to: "to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests", to achieve "a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad", "to increase defense spending significantly", and to pursue "America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles."


Finally we get to weed out the truth from the spin.  George W. Bush and the boys' wanna do is to ensure that America and American interests dominate the entire world for the foreseeable future. And what's more they make no bones of the fact that they intend to achieve this without diplomacy - that's old hat. What PNAC intend to do is enforce
the Pax Americana through military might.



So when George Bush and his gang talk about Saddam  posing a "threat" to America - they don't mean he's going to drop bombs on Washington (how on earth could he without committing national suicide?) - what they mean is that he poses a threat to American military dominance in the Middle East.


In fact, do you know that President Bush's crew regard Saddam as merely an excuse for military action in the area? The PNAC Report of 2000 states:

Quote
"the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the
regime of Saddam Hussein."

Ah so Iraq is merely "the immediate justification" and Saddam's regime is not so important as establishing American military might in the Gulf.

Hehe forgot all those spin points Toad your talking to us now. Now you might understand why the U.N. might have some quibbles.

Offline Cherlie

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Yanks; sometimes I wonder...
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2003, 04:49:27 PM »
Quote
Spain is in Europe. UK is in Europe. Denmark is in Europe


StSanta

they don't know where England, Spain and Denmark is on the map, it must be somewhere near mexico.....:D

CB