So you want to be a fighter pilot...

[gofaster]

First off, you're going to need some training wheels until you get used to the aircraft flight models, weapon ballistics, views, key commands, and how the game works.  The best training aircraft are (in no particular order):

Spitfire Mk IX
N1K2
LA-7
A6M2 or A6M5
F6F-5
Spitfire V/Seafire II
Hurricane

These are planes with user-friendly stall characteristics.  The first 3 I've listed are fairly common in the Main Arena (MA) because of their "fightability" - the ability to get kills fairly easily.  The others you fly not so much to get kills as to keep from planting your nose in the dirt, particularly the A6M and Hurricane planes which can become deathtraps if you don't keep your head on a swivel.

The next planes you'll want to try are:

P-51D
Typhoon
P-47
P-38
Bf109
FW190D
Ki-61
C202 and C205
F4U1D

Each of these can create some challenging stall recovery situations and take a bit of skill to get kills with.  The Mustang and Typhoon are popular because of their ability to speed their way out of a jam unless an La-7 is glued to their tails, and because they pack a pretty good punch.  The others will force you to learn patience and to stay with a target as it tracks across your stream of fire.  

If you're in the game to earn perk points quickly, I recommend the FW190A8, the F4U-1A "Birdcage Corsair", the Yak-9U, the Spitfire V (since most people go with the SpitIX, the SpitV and its brother the Seafire get used less often and have a higher perk generation ability), the 109F, and the Ki-61.

I'll write more when I have more time.

[Soda]

Gofaster,
  The La7 and F6F should not be considered "starter" planes.  Neither is going to be successful in a typical "turn-fight" agianst anything else in that list.  The N1K, Zero, Hurri, Spit, F4F, FM2... will all eat up an La7/F6F in the hands of a new player.  I have no idea where you got the idea that the La7 was a good starter plane... it's not, if anything it is less dangerous in the hands of a new pilot than a N1K is... by far.

The F6F simply is a bit lumbering for the average user, being a class behind a true turner in slow'ish style fights and a little slow to accelerate/climb. I don't think you understand the La7 either.  It is a terribly starter aircraft unless you want the new pilot to spend the whole time colliding or running.  The only realy strength it has is in speed/climb at low levels, something best used by more experienced pilots as a defense... not an offensive.  Any C202 can dive on an La7 and turn that speed advantage into nothing.  The views on the La7 are poor, the ballistics a complete joke, and the range is amongst the worst in the game.  The La7 takes at least the skill of a P-51 (which is faster above 8K, more range, better guns, better views, maneuvering flaps, etc) to get the most out of it.  The whole La7 superiority thing is a myth that needs to be dispelled since it is un-informed.

I would tend to agree that one of the other planes in the list is likely a good starter though.  New players tend to turn-fight everything, thus turn-rate and radius at slow speeds are important, where most of those other planes tend to excel.  There also tends to be a graduation that occurs after the survivability aspects of these rides starts to show and people will search for a plane they perceive offers more survivability.  Often though, they find they just need to develop their skills and can continue to fly Spits, and such, very effectively.

-Soda
AH Trainer Corps.

[WldThing]

Originally posted by Soda
 I have no idea where you got the idea that the La7 was a good starter plane...

Why wouldnt you want to fly an La7 when ure a newbie?  It has the ability to get away from a fight faster than almost any plane here, and the skills it lacks over 10k are just good enough since most rookies dont wanna climb high to get to a fight.

[Ghosth]

Simple Wildthing, most new guys have no comprehension of "running".

They'll turn in it till they die.

Plus it has a really nasty slow speed snap stall.

Not stuff you want to throw at new people.

Actually the Yak9U is better in all respects for someone new to the game who wants a bit more speed.

[WldThing]

Well your gonna throw ACM at them? If not running..

[akak]

Originally posted by gofaster




The next planes you'll want to try are:

P-51D
Typhoon
P-47
P-38
Bf109
FW190D
Ki-61
C202 and C205
F4U1D

Each of these can create some challenging stall recovery situations and take a bit of skill to get kills with.  The Mustang and Typhoon are popular because of their ability to speed their way out of a jam unless an La-7 is glued to their tails, and because they pack a pretty good punch.  The others will force you to learn patience and to stay with a target as it tracks across your stream of fire.  

Out of all the planes in AH, the P-38 has probably the most gentle stall characteristics and is probably the easiest plane to recover from a stall.  It is also probably one of the best stall fighters in the game and in a stall fight is quite able to gain the advantage over planes like the Spitfire and N1K2.  Unless you turn fight in the P-38, it's a good plane to learn Energy and BnZ tactics in because of it's fantastic ability to retain E (probably the best in the game in this regard) and quick acceleration in dives and it doesn't suffer from engine torque like the single engine fighters.  Only when you start to use the P-38 as a turn fighter and have to use flaps that it becomes a difficult plane to fly.


Ack-Ack

[Soda]

Most new players are not runners, half don't even know how to land.  Running is a defensive skill anyway, not an offensive one, and requires an understanding of when to run.  Most newbies will simply enter the fight at low levels and start a big, level,  turn-fight at low speed.  The ones that don't enter at low alt tend to chase the first con they find to 50ft AGL and turn-fight till the end.  The La7 sucks for that, too spooky in the handling department and simply not up to the low speed, tight-turning task against something else.  Besides, the guns have terrible ballistics so hitting anything unless point blank is fairly unlikely (or if they catch someone asleep at the wheel).  The N1K is the prime example of a good plane for newbies, it is a very good turner, plus has 4 cannons with tonnes of ammo... good beginner plane since it can corner like crazy and spray the sky with rounds hoping to land a lucky hit at D800.  Sure, the ballistics are not hot damn, but who cares when you can fill the sky with 20mm.  It also accelerates pretty well, allowing a shot at anyone who stays around just a bit too long and tries to disengage.

In the hands of a newbie, the La7 is likely to be no more effective than the P-51 (which has vastly better views, flaps to help stall, and ballistically better guns).  Honestly, the one thing the P-51 fears it the La7.. anything else it should be able to deal with 1:1.  I don't think the La7 is a good introductory plane though... a Spit would give more mileage with better chance to get a kill or two.

-Soda

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Soda
Gofaster,
  The La7 and F6F should not be considered "starter" planes.  Neither is going to be successful in a typical "turn-fight" agianst anything else in that list.  The N1K, Zero, Hurri, Spit, F4F, FM2... will all eat up an La7/F6F in the hands of a new player.  I have no idea where you got the idea that the La7 was a good starter plane... it's not, if anything it is less dangerous in the hands of a new pilot than a N1K is... by far.

Your assumption is that all new players turn fight.  I would disagree.  I think there is a fair number of players coming from other flight sims that are simply looking for a plane that they can use to get to a fight, take a shot, and get out safely when an enemy saddles up behind them.  That's the advantage of the LA-7 over the other planes in that list.  A N1K2, Zero, Hurri, FM2...those aren't going to be running from anything successfully.  When those planes go in, they're in it until the bitter end.  The LA-7 can run away and drag the bad guys to friendlies.

Originally posted by Soda
The F6F simply is a bit lumbering for the average user, being a class behind a true turner in slow'ish style fights and a little slow to accelerate/climb.

Its faster than an FM-2 off the carrier deck, packs more ammo, and carries a greater ground-pound capability.  It certainly has a bigger load-out than a Seafire. With some altitude it can get itself out of a jam and can turn fair enough.  That makes it a good starter plane for new navy pilots.

Originally posted by Soda
I don't think you understand the La7 either.  It is a terribly starter aircraft unless you want the new pilot to spend the whole time colliding or running.  The only realy strength it has is in speed/climb at low levels, something best used by more experienced pilots as a defense... not an offensive.  
[/B]

Like I said, the LA-7 is great for running when you find yourself in a jam.  That makes for longevity until a new pilot can learn gunnery (and game key commands).

Originally posted by Soda
Any C202 can dive on an La7 and turn that speed advantage into nothing.  The views on the La7 are poor, the ballistics a complete joke, and the range is amongst the worst in the game.  The La7 takes at least the skill of a P-51 (which is faster above 8K, more range, better guns, better views, maneuvering flaps, etc) to get the most out of it.  The whole La7 superiority thing is a myth that needs to be dispelled since it is un-informed.
[/B]

You won't find too many new pilots willing to travel more than 3 or 4 sectors for a fight, so I wouldn't think range would be an issue.  Any plane can dive on an LA-7 given an altitude advantage.  As for views, the Spitfire's are more limited, particularly dead astern.

Originally posted by Soda
I would tend to agree that one of the other planes in the list is likely a good starter though.  New players tend to turn-fight everything, thus turn-rate and radius at slow speeds are important, where most of those other planes tend to excel.  There also tends to be a graduation that occurs after the survivability aspects of these rides starts to show and people will search for a plane they perceive offers more survivability.  Often though, they find they just need to develop their skills and can continue to fly Spits, and such, very effectively.

-Soda
AH Trainer Corps. [/B]

My intent was to present a balanced group of turnfighters and high-speed interceptors - "If you get shot down in Spits and Zeroes, try the LA-7."

[gofaster]

Originally posted by akak
Out of all the planes in AH, the P-38 has probably the most gentle stall characteristics and is probably the easiest plane to recover from a stall.  It is also probably one of the best stall fighters in the game and in a stall fight is quite able to gain the advantage over planes like the Spitfire and N1K2.  Unless you turn fight in the P-38, it's a good plane to learn Energy and BnZ tactics in because of it's fantastic ability to retain E (probably the best in the game in this regard) and quick acceleration in dives and it doesn't suffer from engine torque like the single engine fighters.  Only when you start to use the P-38 as a turn fighter and have to use flaps that it becomes a difficult plane to fly.


Ack-Ack

Exactly, which is why its a "Tier Two" plane.  You have to know how to use flaps and manage your energy and avoid compression if you want to stallfight in it.  You don't have to worry about that sort of thing in a Spitfire, Zero, N1K2, or LA-7.

[Shane]

Originally posted by gofaster
Like I said, the LA-7 is great for running when you find yourself in a jam.  That makes for longevity until a new pilot can learn gunnery (and game key commands).

dang, and here i thought that's what offline was for??

[batdog]

The views on a La7 are pretty damn good I think. Its a plane an idiv from another SIM can up and woop some bellybutton in as well. It turns well.... it can take 51's,190's. some 109's etc. The guns dont have the range of Hispano's but when they hit..they shred.

I think gofaster is pretty on w/his advice myself.

[akak]

Originally posted by gofaster
Exactly, which is why its a "Tier Two" plane.  You have to know how to use flaps and manage your energy and avoid compression if you want to stallfight in it.  You don't have to worry about that sort of thing in a Spitfire, Zero, N1K2, or LA-7.

Compressability in the P-38 is more of a threat when using Energy and BnZ tactics than it is in a stall fight.  If you enter into compressability during a stall fight, you really messed up big time.

And as for the Spitfire, Zero/Zeke, N1K2 and La-7, the only one I'd stall fight in would be the Zero/Zeke.  The Spitfire and N1K2 are good turn fighters but not great stall fighters and the La7 isn't a turn/stall fighter at all and would get chewed up really fast if you did it against a veteran opponent.  


Ack-Ack

[Soda]

Your assumption is that all new players turn fight

This is a fact, most new planers only flat-turn to start with.  Most of the time their goal isn't to survive either, it's to get as many kills as they can with their ammo load, or get as many as they can before they get shot down.  This is why I think the Spit's, N1K, Zero are typically the best planes.  Few handling vices at low speeds, typically reasonable views (N1K a little poor), and enough firepower to get the job done.  The Zero trades the firepower for turn-rate, the N1K kinda should be king (tonnes of ammo).  A well flown Spit is also very capable of being a more intermediate or advanced aircraft, as long as it is flown well.

The planes like the F6F will be popular because it's Navy, AND, it is about the easiest plane to get off the CV with 2K of ordinance under the wings.  It's awfully slow though (barely faster than a Spit), not a great turner, and is fairly lumbering at low speed against the likes of the Spit or N1K.  Acceleration is poor so any Spit/N1K will catch you like a rocket.

I think the La7 needs to be put in a more "intermediate" level of plane though.  The P-51 is similar, it offers some real balance in ability and doesn't need "super" skill to fly.  Something like the 109G10 tends to be tougher, a plane with a very fine limit to fly within but brutal efficiency when used properly.  The P-38 is a very nice plane, with only the problem of size, lower view,  and high speed handling to deal with, again, something a little intermediate.  Posting something that the La7 is a good newbie plane is simply wrong... the average new pilot to AH (not a WB/AW guy) is simply going to get eaten alive by the first Spit that jumps in on him.

-Soda
AH Trainer Corps.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Soda
This is a fact, most new planers only flat-turn to start with.  Posting something that the La7 is a good newbie plane is simply wrong... the average new pilot to AH (not a WB/AW guy) is simply going to get eaten alive by the first Spit that jumps in on him.

Ah, ok.  Now I see the disconnect here.  I was thinking in terms of addressing this for someone new to AH but with experience in WB, AW, EAW, CFS, or some other WW2 flight sim and knew some basic offense/defense strategies and ammo management, but simply weren't familiar with the flight model, lethality models, ballistics, damage models, key commands, game strategies, etc.

For a total noob, the options are more limited: Spit IX, N1K2, A6M, FM2, Hurricane II, none of the German planes (due to poor low-speed characteristics), and none of the Russian planes (due to limited ammo load).  Shiny new pilots need a plane that won't spin, can turn on a dime, and carries a fair amount of ammunition.

You're right - the LA-7 isn't the weapon of choice for new guys wanting to turn fight like John Wayne. Its' small ammo load and tendency to snap-roll when slow will be a problem.  However, it does make a good alternative to turnfighters and is certainly more potent than the Yak-9U, which requires better gunnery skills and the ability to stay with a target longer.

[najdorf]

Only been in game for 6 weeks, but one of the planes I have least trouble killing in my N1K is the P-38.  Maybe the guys I'm meeting in them are noobs, but they don't seem a very good match.

Personally in tour 37:  6 kills of P-38, 2 deaths to P-38

In the MA in Tour 37:  K/D of 982/643 in favor of N1K in head to head matchups.