Author Topic: Why I am agianst a US invasion of Iraq, why I think we're doing it and my hopes (Read 1884 times)

AKIron · « **Reply #30 on:** March 13, 2003, 01:26:19 PM »

The only Macallan I've tried is a couple bottles of the 12 year, finished in sherry casks. Didn't care for it at first, sherry flavor was too pronounced. Although by the time I finished the bottle I was ready for another. How does it compare to the 25 yr Toad?

2Slow · « **Reply #31 on:** March 13, 2003, 01:35:48 PM »

"There can be no doubt Hussein is in violation of the will of the International Community as expressed by the sanctions. (Note I said Hussein, not Iraq). "

The problem is that the IC won't impose its will on them.

blitz · « **Reply #32 on:** March 13, 2003, 01:54:33 PM »

Good post Karnak

My only concern is about the reasons for the pro- and against war people.

1.Many people who are against Iraq war are alarmed by the way Bush and his crew handelted this whole thing.

It looks to them ( me included) that Rumpsfeld, Wolfowitz and others around Bush abuse 9/11 to resuscitate an old strategy outa the late 80thies (from Wolfowitz) to gain much more influence and power for the USA at all costs. This list with 60 nations to deal with scares us. The way Rumpsfeld talked about old allies scared us.
How will they deal with their enemies if they attack friends like this ?
The way Bush jr. handels diplomacy scares us. His father was a president, is he too?

2.To be honest, i don't belive fear is the only motivation for the pro-war people.

Badly hurt pride after Vietnam and 9/11, media made panic, overreacting nationalism, and the wish to be the superiour people in this world are some others.
You can awake that kind of feelings in every nation of the world and Bush and his falcons did everything they could to make these feelings grow. Bad idea

Imho

Blitz

America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous

ra · « **Reply #33 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:06:01 PM »

Quote

Badly hurt pride after Vietnam and 9/11, media made panic, overreacting nationalism, and the wish to be the superiour people in this world are some others.

Idiotic. You are clueless.

Toad · « **Reply #34 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:23:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by 10Bears
I am 10Bears Whooper of Toad...

Yeah, you're definitely a legend in your own mind.

By all means, grab a shovel and dig yourself in too.

Hey, you gonna place the second wager or not? I think Wpn would love 6 months of free AH.

Well? (Or are ya too busy with that shovel?)

Rasker · « **Reply #35 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:28:56 PM »

Blitz, the United States "just" (in historical terms) led the most successful defensive coalition in history to an incredibly bloodless victory when not only human freedom but continued human existence were at stake. I see no felt inadequacy among Americans that would cause us to look around for someone to beat up on.

If any side needs to be psychoanalyzed, it is the reflexive anti-Americans who prefer to support the continued reign of a murdering, lying brute over his helpless and suffering people. What about Saddam Hussein would make his government seem worthy of preservation to a believing liberal or democratic socialist?

Toad · « **Reply #36 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:31:32 PM »

Iron, I made the 12 MacAllan year old my "bar" scotch. I don't that much anyway and a bottle lasts my wife and I literally for months. Now if my old college roomate drops by, he can kill a bottle in a short evening.

Which is why I keep a bottle of 18 year old MacAllan stashed out of sight. This is a "special occasion" Scotch and I think there is a notable increase in smoothness and depth compared to the 12 year old. This is a VERY good whisky. A bottle of this easily lasts more than six or eight months.

Now, circumstances of a private nature prompted me to buy my first bottle of 25 year old MacAllan about a year ago. It is nearly half gone. It is only poured on the most cerimonial occasions. It is noticably smoother than even the 18 year old, however the depth and palate are close. The 25 is better in this regard, but not all THAT much. A truly fine drink.

blitz · « **Reply #37 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:31:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ra
Idiotic. You are clueless.

Really? Your pride wasn't dammaged after 18 thirt world lunatics did such a serious attack on 2 symbols of the last remaining superpower, my namecalling friend?

Mine had been, if i was an american.

Regards Blitz

America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous

Toad · « **Reply #38 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:40:13 PM »

Iron, while the rest of the world is surviving despite paying much more for gasoline than we do, apparently the assumption made is that WE would all curl up into a thumb-sucking fetal ball and just die.

Cod forbid the day should come when Americans have to give up drinking a gallon of Evian in exchange for buying 3 gallons of gasoline for the same price, eh? How can we possibly survive?

The horror of drinking tap water!

Industries rise and fall all the time. I'm sure there are those who were gainfully employed making buttonhooks that experienced the feelings that some airline workers here seem to be experiencing. Likewise those who made kerosene lanterns and undboutedly lots of railway workers.

The smart industries survive and adapt. No one, to my knowledge, has ever depicted the major carriers here as "smart and adaptive". As a result, my industry is failing and my carrier will fail along with the other dinosaurs.

So, while I may be having one last drink on the bridge of the Titanic, there's not much I can do but make sure I savor the drink. But I'm not curling into a ball and crying over my fate. When the water gets up to my ankles, I'll be swimming for all I'm worth.

And I'll survive.

Toad · « **Reply #39 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:42:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rasker
If any side needs to be psychoanalyzed, it is the reflexive anti-Americans who prefer to support the continued reign of a murdering, lying brute over his helpless and suffering people. What about Saddam Hussein would make his government seem worthy of preservation to a believing liberal or democratic socialist?

"Shack!"

blitz · « **Reply #40 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:47:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rasker
Blitz, the United States "just" (in historical terms) led the most successful defensive coalition in history to an incredibly bloodless victory when not only human freedom but continued human existence were at stake. I see no felt inadequacy among Americans that would cause us to look around for someone to beat up on.

Mind you, this wasn't bloodless, cost the lives of millions of people.
Nevertheless, it had a happy end at least for you and me.

Quote

If any side needs to be psychoanalyzed, it is the reflexive anti-Americans who prefer to support the continued reign of a murdering, lying brute over his helpless and suffering people. What about Saddam Hussein would make his government seem worthy of preservation to a believing liberal or democratic socialist? [/B]

1.Pschychoanalysing of anti-Iraq war people is dayly work nowadays, at least at this board.

2.We don't support Saddam Hussein, we just try to slow down Bush and his warmongeres.

3. Nobody wants Saddam alive and his regime survive

Regards Blitz

America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous

ra · « **Reply #41 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:53:38 PM »

Quote

Really? Your pride wasn't dammaged after 18 third world lunatics did such a serious attack on 2 symbols of the last remaining superpower, my namecalling friend?

You are still an idiot. Why would pride be hurt by the WTC attack? It was not like losing an Olympic basketball game to Bulgaria. It was much more serious, but you are an idiot and don't see that.

And you bring Vietnam into the current situation, and say that America wants to be superior? Vietnam is ancient history. This war will cost American lives and wealth, it has nothing to do with superiority over other nations. Perhaps you feel inferior?

While certain European countries aggressively do everything they can to make this war as costly as possible to the U.S., they piously claim that the U.S. is out of control and that "peace" should be maintained at all costs. Europe is led by empty shirt bureaucrats who can't step up to the challenges of the current situation.

And after Iraq, the U.S. gets to prove its superiority over the rest of the world by handling North Korea. Bite me.

ra

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #42 on:** March 13, 2003, 02:59:36 PM »

Once someone brings up Vietnam, mentions pride and starts clamoring about superiority, they have lost any argument they could of possibly put forth.

Not that they had a sane or well thought out argument that was their own to begin with.
-SW

crabofix · « **Reply #43 on:** March 13, 2003, 03:00:44 PM »

Just clearafying the "Gasprize of Europe".
Actully its the same as US, they just added some tax to it, LOADS OF TAX!

Crabofix

blitz · « **Reply #44 on:** March 13, 2003, 03:19:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ra
You are still an idiot. Why would pride be hurt by the WTC attack? It was not like losing an Olympic basketball game to Bulgaria. It was much more serious, but you are an idiot and don't see that.

Your reaction would show shows me if i wasn't convinced by now, my pride friend.

And you bring Vietnam into the current situation, and say that America wants to be superior? Vietnam is ancient history. This war will cost American lives and wealth, it has nothing to do with superiority over other nations. Perhaps you feel inferior?

Vietnam war is still vivid and it was the only war USA lost so far.
Little thirth world country against a Superpower.

In my eyes 9/11 fits very in this line as it was the second time you lost to a non adequate enemy.

USA never saw a war on it's own teritory and this horrible and criminal attack at 9/11 caused a lot of emotions. Fear, anger, confusion and the others i mentioned above.

Many americans seems to feel superior, read all the posts on this bbs and you' know all about it.

Quote

While certain European countries aggressively do everything they can to make this war as costly as possible to the U.S., they piously claim that the U.S. is out of control and that "peace" should be maintained at all costs. Europe is led by empty shirt bureaucrats who can't step up to the challenges of the current situation.

And after Iraq, the U.S. gets to prove its superiority over the rest of the world by handling North Korea. Bite me.

ra [/B]

Out of control? YES, in same terms (diplomacy, language) US is out of control as it looks like. Please read what Bush Sr. has to tell about it.

NK? Hope, GWB learned something from this Iraq disaster.

Regards Blitz

America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous