Author Topic: Why the Israelis will prevail  (Read 2905 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Why the Israelis will prevail
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2003, 09:39:08 AM »
What if they came back tommorow and the next day and the next?  And all around the country for years? And what if it was all over TV in every western country? And what if the suice bombings stopped while all this went on?  You see thats the beuty of nonviolent resistance, they can only kill you and beat you with sticks - gandhi was a whoopee genious. There is nothing a western country can do but give in after a little while of that. But that would take a gandhi a concept which the palestenians and arabs in general dont seem to understand.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2003, 09:46:14 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What if they came back tommorow and the next day and the next?


I bet the Israelis would prefer that over them coming back tomorrow and the next day to their markets with bombs hidden on their bodies.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2003, 11:14:05 AM »
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Originally posted by AKIron
I bet the Israelis would prefer that over them coming back tomorrow and the next day to their markets with bombs hidden on their bodies.


Depends on which isrealis. Well let me be more precise, im not saying there are neccsairily israelis who like the suiced bombmbings but i do know there are israeils who would rather see the conflict go on as is than reach any reasonable peace agreement where israel would likely loose much territory and many settlements.

Offline Dowding

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Why the Israelis will prevail
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2003, 11:16:13 AM »
There are Zionist nutcases and Palestinian nutcases is what I think you're saying Grunherz. Unfortunately, they seem to hold all the cards.
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Offline flyingaround

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« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2003, 12:21:26 PM »
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Nah, the Israelis are protected by the jewish lobby. The largest and most influential lobby there is in the US. Israel could pretty much torch the west bank and nothing would happen with the US support thanks to that lobby...


Egypt gets approximately 2 billion dollars in foreign aid from the US and is, next to Israel, consistently the recipient of the second largest foreign aid package given by the US to any country.  So...you gonna explain that one to me Mr "Zionist Jews rule America"?

The Israeli aid package comes with strings: One of the requirements is that Israel must spend 75% of its total allocation in the U.S.  Israel does this. It spends almost 2 billion dollars per year of its package buying  armaments--guns, tanks, planes, etc. from US armament manufacturers. It looks likes Congress provides the money to Israel and Israel turns right around and spends that money in the US on arming itself in order to defend not only its own interests but US interests as well.  This is cheaper for the US than keeping an army in the region.  

Here are some statistics from Robert Borsage's article on the U.S. Budget.
We spend 80 billion a year on Nato Defense forces.  We spend 30
billion a year on the Asia/Pacific region including 3 billion a year
to maintain 37,000 American troops in S. Korea. In view of this,
spending almost 3 billion in Israel when our arms manufacturers get back 75% of that is a major bargain.  We get to keep what amounts to a standing army in Israel without risking American lives and at a fraction of the real US cost to defend parts of the Pacific.  

What a deal.

Please, think your opinions through before you air them, unless you happen to LIKE rational, thinking people reading your stuff and saying to themself "what a nut job".   The United States would NOT drop so much money on Egypt if the Jewish lobby had control.  To tell you the truth, the largest lobby group in the US is the arms manufacturers lobby.  The Aerospace Insustry Association alone spends twice the amount of dollars lobbying congress than all of the Israeli lobbies combined.


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Offline Batz

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Why the Israelis will prevail
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2003, 12:44:14 PM »
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But what could the tank do if they just stood their ground, no rock throwing no aggression just stood there - hundreds and hundreds of them? What could any weapon do? It could do nothing but kill them.



They would run right over they like they did that peace nik chic.

AKIron do a search on how many palestinians died by Israelis this year that werent terrorists. You would be surprised.

Hell just few weeks ago Isrealis tanks tanks fired into building catching it on fire. When civilians attempted put the fire out the Isrealis fired a tank shell into them killing several.

You can only kick a dog so long before he bites you. Israel deserves every bit they get.

The Palestians are denied everything from their homes to basic human rights. They have no army, no tanks, no Attack Chopters no jet fighters to resist with.

They fight back with the tools they have, rocks and nail bombs.

But even so check the Kd ratio. See how many pal civilians die in relation to Israelis killed by pal terrorists.

Israel is lead by a war criminal equal to anything Arafat has done.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2003, 12:45:28 PM »
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Originally posted by flyingaround
So...you gonna explain that one to me Mr "Zionist Jews rule America"?

Uh...where the f*ck did that come from?

Do a search on my username and keyword "Israel" before you draw any conclusions about my opinions.

Tard.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2003, 01:38:41 PM »
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Originally posted by Batz
AKIron do a search on how many palestinians died by Israelis this year that werent terrorists. You would be surprised.
 


How the hell can ya tell which ones aren't terroists? You must have some magic glasses or something.
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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2003, 02:22:53 PM »
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How the hell can ya tell which ones aren't terroists? You must have some magic glasses or something.


You could go to http://www.ict.org.il/ which has a database of all deaths from Sept 2000. Bear in mind they are an orginisation run by senior members of  the Israeli government, military and Mossad.

They have worked out something over 800 innocent Palestinian civilians killed by Israel. Given the bias of the site, it's probably far higher.

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What if they came back tommorow and the next day and the next? And all around the country for years? And what if it was all over TV in every western country? And what if the suice bombings stopped while all this went on? You see thats the beuty of nonviolent resistance, they can only kill you and beat you with sticks - gandhi was a whoopee genious. There is nothing a western country can do but give in after a little while of that.

Israel is not a "western" country. No Western country defines itself as a state for one religion only, and gives other religons less rights.

Israel defines itself as a Jewish state.

Every single Palestinian refugee could have the right of return to Israel, if they were to convert to Judaism. No western country defines itself that way, or grants citizenship based on religon.

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Jerusalem. It all revolves around Jerusalem. Barak gave Arafat everything ... except Jerusalem.

Barak gave almost nothing.

The Palestinians want the right of return, parts of Jerusalem including Temple Mount, all the West Bank and Gaza, including all the Israeli settlements.

Israel wants to keep all the settlements, all of Jerusalem including temple mount, and no right of return.

Barak's concessions were to remove about 20% of the settlers. He offered about 80% of the West Bank, no right of return, parts of Jerusalem not including Temple Mount.

Barak's offer was basically the Israeli position with no compromises at all. Barak later offered a much better deal, but negotiations ended due to the Israeli elections.

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It would have been one thing for him to reject that unfair proposal and ask for more negotion - but a whole different thing was to resume wholesale terrorism again. And no I dont think that moron Sharons visit to the holy site was a good enough excise either.


The Palestinians did not resume wholesale terrorism straight after the failure of Camp David.

From ICT, the Israeli counter terrorism site I linked to:

"The first phase of the al-Aqsa conflict began on 27 September 2000, and ended in late December 2000. At that time Palestinian fatalities tapered off sharply, and remained generally lower until the next September. December 21, 2000 has been chosen as the last day of this first phase. As a first approximation, we can label this phase of the conflict the “real or apparent popular uprising” phase (leaving room for uncertainty as to whether this “uprising” was genuinely spontaneous, or was manufactured by Palestinian leaders), as most of the fatalities appear to have occurred as the result of Palestinian mass demonstrations or riots, and the Israeli response to them. (A more detailed breakdown of these fatalities by Incident Type remains to be done.) "


Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2003, 02:28:08 PM »
No, at its core Israel is a liberal western country with a european style socialist bent - the religius basis is peculiar only becouse of the circumstances of history and the hitsory of jews and the militarism for obvious reasons. The Israeli anti-peace camp would **** its pants if they palestenians got a gandhi.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2003, 02:40:32 PM »
Grun explain me why the ultra-orthodoxs are allways in the governement ?

It's close to western standard (closest than any country of this part of the world) but not close enought.

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2003, 02:43:23 PM »
Who killed Ghandi, Grunherz?

A Palestinian Ghandi wouldn't stand a chance.

And if he wasn't killed by extremists on his own side, he'd be Mossad fodder within weeks of any kind of ascendency.

Non-violent protest does work, I believe. Certainly for MLK and Ghandi - it just takes an irregular kind of matyrdom.
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Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2003, 02:54:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan


SNIP -the usual ramblings

They have worked out something over 800 innocent Palestinian civilians killed by Israel.


That number is completely misleading unless you give the details behind every single casualty.

For example,
Israeli F-16 drops bomb on terrorist leader, terrorist leader dies together with 4 innocent civilians who just happened to live in the building the terrorist was hiding in.

Or,
Terrorist drives in a car, Israeli Helicopter shoots missile on car, in the explosion, the terrorist leader is killed, so are two innocent bystanders.

Or,
Terrorists attempt some sort of mini Stalingrad in Jenin. IDF moves in and kills the terrorists. In the battle, several civilians who have refused to leave their homes are killed as they are caught in the crossfire.

All examples of innocent victims, all examples of collateral damage, all examples of what happens when terrorists hide among civilians, all examples of how your numbers are misleading.

Do a count of number of innocent Iraqis if you will, or innocent Afghans...you will find similar numbers there...but that wont change the fact that both Israel, US and UK at least tries to spare the civilians, but it is bloody hard when your enemies deliberately hide in Mosques, Schools, Hospitals.

You should blame the terrorists.

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2003, 03:29:31 PM »
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That number is completely misleading unless you give the details behind every single casualty.

What, things like "Israeli tank fires shell at children on bikes breaking curfew, killing four."

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You should blame the terrorists.

Or the Israeli government that is using the IDF to enforce security whilst it colonises Palestinian's lands.

If Israel is ready to uproot all the colonists in return for peace, then the IDF has some justification in it's goals,  if not it's methods.

If Israel is not ready to remove the colonists, then it is using the IDF in a war of conquest, and is responsible for the deaths that result.

Considering that Barak never offered to remove the colonists, and Sharon certainly won't, which do you think is closer to the truth?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2003, 03:32:00 PM »
I know who killed gandhi I allready said it was one of his own side's extermists.  Thats why i think the palesteninas are plowed, they just have the extermists run  everything and no man is capable of tempering them down. To be honest i dont think the whole islam jihad martyrdom thing helps either at least they way the militant agitators frame those concepts.  

One could even say the israeli nutbags shot their own gandhi when that fool killed rabin.  :(

straffo the ultra orthodox are not always in power in israel. They have been influential of course because they are a fanatics but many israelisa are getting pissed at them and all the govt subsidies the ultra orthodox nutbags get or how they mistreat eververyone not follwing their practice during sabbath. There is even a whole new political pary in isreal thats very moderate and secular to combat the orhodox nutbags.

All thise semitic freaks should just stop this idiocy.

Pals must clamp down on death to israel idea and practice.

Jews must give up most settlements.

Jerusalem musat be open to all and have  sp;lit custody and dual capital or neither have capital in jerusalem.

Water rights and borgder issues are easy if first two are taken care of.


I really plowing hate this jew palestenian conflict its utterly useless and easy to stop if only they really wanted to solve it. Godddamed fools.