Author Topic: Friday The 4th (Read 4925 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #60 on:** April 03, 2003, 07:35:19 PM »

Slash27,

When have you guys ever advocated for Japanese aircraft as anything other than an apparent afterthought?

All I ever see from the US fans is stuff like:

"Give us the F7F and F8F because they're cool!!! Oh, give the Japanese the Ki.43-I because that was one of their main fighters and we need something to shoot."

And that's the optimistic version where a Japanese aircraft was actually included in the request. Mostly its just asking for top end US stuff.

najdorf,

You're new to the game so you wouldn't know why that setup won't work. It wont work because the Allies will whine endlessly about how the N1K2-J shouldn't be there because there were only 400 built and they didn't see combat until 1945. After this whining goes on for a bit the CT guys will cave in and either remove the N1K2-J entirely, perk it, or limit it to the very rearmost fields. The Allies will then proceed to use their 5 to 1 numerical advantage to crush the Ki.61s and A6M5s.

tzr · « **Reply #61 on:** April 03, 2003, 07:44:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
It wont work because the Allies will whine endlessly about how the N1K2-J shouldn't be there because there were only 400 built and they didn't see combat until 1945. After this whining goes on for a bit the CT guys will cave in and either remove the N1K2-J entirely, perk it, or limit it to the very rearmost fields.

Isn't that what happend to the F4U-1

Squire · « **Reply #62 on:** April 03, 2003, 08:00:01 PM »

We could have a setup like this:

Solomons late 1943/early 1944 "The End at Rabaul":

A6M5 perked at 1 pt?
A6M2
Ki-61
D3A
B5N
Ki-67? maybe maybe not

vs

F4U-1 perked at 2 pts? USMC only, none on CVs.
F4F-4s
P-40E
TBM
SBD
A-20
B-26? maybe maybe not.

Tell me please whats wrong with that setup??? It may need some tweeking but I just dont buy the "it cant be done" posts.

tzr · « **Reply #63 on:** April 03, 2003, 08:07:04 PM »

give them the KI-67 lose the B-26 add 1 cv with F6 and FM2

I like IT!!

Squire · « **Reply #64 on:** April 03, 2003, 08:30:22 PM »

You could have a F6F at 2 pts on a CV, but no FM2. FM2 was a late 1944 a/c and saw no service in the Solomons.

brady · « **Reply #65 on:** April 03, 2003, 08:42:35 PM »

Squire, well you have a 50 plus MPH spead advantage over the Tony and a 70 some odd mph spead advantage over the Zero with the F4U-1.

Perking is pointless( some pun:) ) They will be widly flown since they will will compleatly domanate the Japanese fighter's.

The B-26 we have in the game is not approparate for the early to mid war pacific.

The Boston and the Ki-67 are a good (as good as we can get) match up for allied and Japanese bombers for most all pac set up's time wise. Both are faster than the fighter's apposing them both cary simmilar bombloads. While the Ki 67 has a decent defensive package it is not to tough, and it cant be used as a Jabo. The Boston can be used as a Jabo and is capable of killing Zero's with it's forward gun's, and it can kill them with it's tail gun easy, while being tough. Over all they represent a kinda crazy balance.

The B-26 is a problem in this regard, the one's in New Gunie at this time had a much lighter defensive package than the B-26 in AH and aganst the week Japanese planes this would be crazy, it would also inhance the huge Offensive advantage the Allies have in terms of bombloads, thus causing more of an imbalance.

The TBM's and SBD's are already far later modles than were actualy their and they are possesed of a much heaver deffensive and offensive firpower advantage respectively. So in this regard the Allies already have it better than they realy did.

Soulyss, I think if you look at my post and read it you will find that it suport's the therory that Most of the Fighters were A6M3's during this time.

Squire · « **Reply #66 on:** April 03, 2003, 09:13:38 PM »

...and the Ki-61 has a 40mph speed advantage over the F4F-4, and a 20mph advantage over the P-40E, not to mention climb rate, and the A6M5 is as fast.

If the perks are useless then why did you just have a setup using them?

Bombers? so just use the A-20 then. Its easy meat for a Ki-61 or an A6M5.

As far as the TBM and SBD go, sorry you have lost me. They are 1943 models, what, ughh, they gunna dogfight the IJN? they too uber now for a PAC setup? I dont follow you.

Batz · « **Reply #67 on:** April 03, 2003, 09:19:36 PM »

The problem is fighting the other planes, the problem chasing the runners around for an hour looking for a "fight".

Chasing the blue plane that just split esse'd to his ack or is running 3 sectors away come back with 10k alt is not much fun.

Thats why these set ups end up with axis outnumbered. When you call um on it you hear "You dont expect us to turn fight blah blah blah". But they damn sure expect the axis guys to spend their time chasing runners.

When Brady had to pull the F4U-1 last time he ran this was because guys would fly it 3 sectors to club baby seals. The guys who like Japaneese planes get stuck with "crappy" planes so should the allies. When guys tired after set up after set up of the f4f maybe we wont see those "give us the f8f or f7f" requests and we starting seeing some real calls for more Japaneese stuff.

All things considered Bradys setup brings the best level of parity you can get for pac setups given the current Japanese plane set.

All the whines about "I need my 50 mph faster blue plane or it just not fair" is bs. The main is chock full of F4us and f6fs.

The only reason this setup came back up so soon is because theres a new terrain build and needs a stress test before the upcoming Guadalcanal scenario. The same thing happened before BoB. Surely you can deal with it for a week.

brady · « **Reply #68 on:** April 03, 2003, 09:45:11 PM »

The main reasion i reran it is because it was a popular set up and had good number's, and was a fair match up, Pluss it is an awsome map, it has been a month since we ran it as well, The CT is Not Hear to serve the CM's. I could give a rats bellybutton if it was rebuilt or not, Nothing I neaded fixed was any way:)

"...and the Ki-61 has a 40mph speed advantage over the F4F-4, and a 20mph advantage over the P-40E, not to mention climb rate, and the A6M5 is as fast. "

Any set up that Features a plane type (fighter) that is that domanating is not a good match up, I dont care what collor it is.

"If the perks are useless then why did you just have a setup using them? '

I did not do the last set up, I dont generaly use perks in my set up's, sometimes but not to often.

"Bombers? so just use the A-20 then. Its easy meat for a Ki-61 or an A6M5. "

As easy as the Ki 67 would be for the F4U-1, the Boston is a prety fast buff.Their is only around a 12 mph diferance in the A6M5 and the A6M2 on the deck

"As far as the TBM and SBD go, sorry you have lost me. They are 1943 models, what, ughh, they gunna dogfight the IJN? they too uber now for a PAC setup? I dont follow you."

Depends on the time frame, in the above plane set no they would be prety easy meat (Tony), In earler set up's whear we just have the A6M2 they are prety uber, i got several kills with SBD's and TBM's aganst Zero's with them, and ya I dog faught the Zero's with the SBD, and used my guns defensive and offensive to get kill's. I am not saying that geting kills is bad, but i am saying that the allies have an advantage in this regard in that we have later models than the ones that were their.( for the earler set up's) The TBM-3 started production in Aprial of 44 I beleave, while the SBD-5 entered service in mid 43.

Karnak · « **Reply #69 on:** April 03, 2003, 10:01:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by tzr
Isn't that what happend to the F4U-1

With the noted difference that the F4U-1 had gone 45 or so to 8, whereas the N1K2's get whined away when they're breaking even, or even negative in K/D because most Allied guys don't seem to like the slightest challenge.

If it was N1K2-Js vs F4F-4s you'd have a similar problem to what we faced in A6M2s vs F4U-1s, and I would fully support the removal of the N1K2-J from any such hypothetical scenario.

Slash27 · « **Reply #70 on:** April 03, 2003, 10:45:27 PM »

When have you guys ever advocated for Japanese aircraft as anything other than an apparent afterthought?

I know anytime there has been a post that I have seen where guys were asking for more Japanese planes I voiced my support. So have HiJacker, Erg, and others.

"Give us the F7F and F8F because they're cool!!! Oh, give the Japanese the Ki.43-I because that was one of their main fighters and we need something to shoot."

If you are implying that me or my squad has requested this, you are a liar. I would like you show me these posts with all the requests for the Bearcat. I would like to see them. You dont work for the Ministry of Information in Iraq by any chance do you?

When guys tired after set up after set up of the f4f maybe we wont see those "give us the f8f or f7f" requests and we starting seeing some real calls for more Japaneese stuff.

Keep that propoganda coming.

tzr · « **Reply #71 on:** April 03, 2003, 11:20:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Batz
The guys who like Japaneese planes get stuck with "crappy" planes so should the allies. When guys tired after set up after set up of the f4f maybe we wont see those "give us the f8f or f7f" requests and we starting seeing some real calls for more Japaneese stuff.

So your saying this is the way "they" are gonna keep it till HiTec puts in more/better planes for Japaneese plane set.....

well i can see my CT days are numbered:(

Batz · « **Reply #72 on:** April 03, 2003, 11:44:40 PM »

No thats not what a I said Tzr. There have been other ct CMs that ran many many set ups that included every imaginable variation of late war us stuff vrs the ki 61 and a6m5. They sucked. It seems that as of late some CT cms see that. I know Brady most likely wont put up such a set up.

When I was a CT CM I dont think I ever did 1 pac setup.

Look at your call for a set up. You want every USN plane there is enabled. You guys fail to consider the point of view of others, those who dont care to fly blue planes.

But the fact remains that early war pac set ups are as good as it can get until there more Japanese planes. The slot map is great map, the planeset is equal except for minor things. Folks have fun on that map. Numbers seem to be on average.

Besides that it only runs a week. The reason this particular setup is back in rotation so fast is because of an upcoming event.

Slash you keep your whining coming and I'll keep posting the facts.

Arlo · « **Reply #73 on:** April 04, 2003, 12:28:54 AM »

Yeah, ya pissy whiner. He pulled it to keep his fellow axis pilots content and dry.

Quote

Originally posted by Batz

When Brady had to pull the F4U-1 last time he ran this was because guys would fly it 3 sectors to club baby seals.

Karnak · « **Reply #74 on:** April 04, 2003, 12:44:39 AM »

Slash27,

I have no idea who is in your squad. I have no idea if anybody in your squad has made such a post. By your own admission though, to your knowledge, nobody in your squad has ever created a thread requesting Japanese aircraft.

Posting a "Me too" in somebody elses thread doesn't cut it when your preffered side needs opposition as badly as it does in this case.