How gangbanging shapes the MA.

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Seeker:
Here we have a 1042/3 parts bin hybrid and you're still whining. What would the fuss be if we had a Spit modeled after the best of the breed, like the Lw rides?

Seeker could you tell me which LW fighters except G-10 and Me-262 are "the best of their breed" in AH?

-----------------

1Wmaker1
Lentolaivue 34

[SFRT - Frenchy]

It's the front area who's to narow. Pilots have the choice between attacking field A, or field B or field C. All of those fileds, you can see a stream of fighters going back and fourth.

Personally I always go for the less crowded as I hate furballs. But even my squadies, in their P47 are usually found going for the more crowded.

I never understood that  

Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
 
http://www.jump.net/~cs3" TARGET=_blank>63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
Ammo cannot stand to pay our P47s repair bill anymore ...
Santa even talked about awarding me the Iron Cross!!!

[Don]

Interesting observations but not new or original. Gangbanging is very much alive in here but, it doesn't have anything to do with the influx of people from AW. When I came over from AW 6 months ago, I observed gangbanging not only by individuals but also by countries, and it still occurs.
Over in AW there was ganging all the time in the same way. I can't speak for WBz although one of my squadmates flew WBz for several months and came back to report that ganging was done by individuals and countries as well. In AH I am constantly amazed to see 4 and 5 nme or friendlies chasing one poor SOB til he dies or manages to run away (hence the need for a fast plane). I think Urchin makes an accurate observation though...it does occur. Will it change? I submit that it won't . If it did though that would be great. Hehe, no more guys stealing your kill after you work em down to your advantage. No more guys diving in to get hits in on the nme plane you shot shot up; no more guys running away leaving you hi and dry with the 5 nme on your back, that you just got off his back. Sigh, wouldn't the AH world be a better place?  

[Seeker]

I'd have though the Ta-152 and 190D were considered moderatly good, wouldn't you
?

Oh, I forgot, we don't have the Ta-152, do we?

[Don]

The furball is one aspect of online sims that is fun, exhiliarating and action packed. It ruled in AW and seems to be as favored here in AH. Many times I have flown around, over, and in low level furballs and have seen folks diving, climbing and chasing without a thought for destroying the field being contested; furballs seem to take on a life of their own. It makes for memorable times in the game. And unless you are in a fast a/c that can climb up over a fight to advantage, it aint no fun being low and slow. It is possible to find a one v one too, and they are fun, if the guy your fighting wants to fight and not pull skill less HO's.
All of this to say, we have what we have in the MA; sort of like the will of the people. If folks didnt want it this way, it wouldn't be.

[ra]

What you all are describing is furballing, not gangbanging.  Gangbanging would be an improvement because it implies cooperation.  When you find 3 Spits hot on your six, they are not cooperating, they each want the kill and you got yourself in range so you've become their target.

The problem is that even with the strat system and the mission planner and the CT, AH has not yet developed much of an alternative to the general MA furball.  There's nothing wrong with furballing, but it would be nice for the average player to have an alternative available 24/7.

One thing to do is go on channel 1 and ask if anyone wants to go to the dueling arena.  Another is to go hunting in uncrowded sectors.  You'd be surprised what you can find as a solo hunter in a quiet sector:  low Arados and Me-262's; lone buffs climbing out; lost newbies; and the occassional lone hunter like yourself.  It takes more time to find your fight, but if you want a quick fight then grab a Spit and join the furball.

ra

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Seeker:
I'd have though the Ta-152 and 190D were considered moderatly good, wouldn't you
?

Oh, I forgot, we don't have the Ta-152, do we?

They most definately are "moderately good" but that wasn't what you said in the first place, was it?

---------------

1Wmaker1
Lentolaivue 34

[Seeker]

In that case I withdraw my sarcasm, and boldly state that to the best of my knowledge the 190D is the best of the 190 breed, and the Ta-152 goes even further, it's a Wolf so uber they changed it's name.

Can I have my Spit XIV now, I'm getting used to the fact that LW whining is a universal constant that should be ignored.

[Dweebus]

Originally posted by Seeker:
Can I have my Spit XIV now, I'm getting used to the fact that LW whining is a universal constant that should be ignored.

My squad will be flying spits.  It is fun to hear the Lufftwaffles whine.

[Seeker]

Hah! The force is with me!

Wait 'til you see our ack-stars in Bigweek!

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Seeker:
In that case I withdraw my sarcasm, and boldly state that to the best of my knowledge the 190D is the best of the 190 breed, and the Ta-152 goes even further, it's a Wolf so uber they changed it's name.

Can I have my Spit XIV now, I'm getting used to the fact that LW whining is a universal constant that should be ignored.

In AH we have D-9. D-13 for example is better Dora variant than D-9. There was also different kind of "souped up" D-9s which AH's D-9 clearly isn't. AFAIK only handful of these examples ever saw service and at the moment I have no interest in getting one of them to AH. Currently there are much more important planes to model. So to answer your argument about "the best of the breed"...well there were faster D-9s than we currently have in AH but as it is modelled AH it's a great plane and I'm happy with it.

Also main arena-wise better Ta-152 existed (Ta-152C) than the one AH has right now. Only one of them was ever built but considering how small number of Ta-152 as a whole got produced I think it counts...it was a Ta-152 no matter how you look at it. Again HTC chose the right variant of Ta-152 to model.

Same thing as above applies to Bf-109F-4 and G-6 for example but again I stand behind HTC with their choises except G-6 could have MW-50 injection...that would make a nice linear step up in performance though the whole line of 109s we have in AH.

Spitfire Mk.XIV definately deserves its place in AH since other nations allready have planes like G-10/D-9, P-51D/F4U-4, LA-7 and N1K1. The only thing is that allthough it most definately deserves to be released unperked I suspect it won't stay that way for long because of probable over usage.

And what comes to the Lw-whining...there are whiners whining about many planes and they aren't all german (does P-38 ring a bell?). Seems to me that the group whining about the whiners who whine about the german planes are the loudest growd whiners of all whiners.   That's the reason why so called "Lw-whiners" are the most discussed group of whiners...because the whiners whining about them whine so much.   (wow, that sounds crystal clear! )

Anyways I hope you weren't referring to me with that "Lw-whiner" remark because you can't find a single whine about german planes posted by me to this message board and that ain't because there are no search function currently available.

-------------------

1Wmaker1
Lentolaivue 34

[38isPorked]

Maybe the layout of the airfields is to blame?


Ive been drawing a few layouts.. one that I found interesting was when I put my paper on top of a join-the-dot kiddie game on the local newspaper and saw many of the dots on my own paper.

Its a bit hard to explain, ill try to scan a picture when I get home. Think of it as.. say, the BALTIC terrain. Now ERASE all the fields and depots from it. Put 3 airbases within 1.5 sectors of each other. Now, put another set of 3 airbases 4 sectors away from them. And so on. Put depots and factories back in.

Result?  a map with few airfields. I didnt put more than 20 fields altogether in the map. But hey, the way it looked was that in order to ADVANCE on the other countrie's terrain was to actually take the set of 3 fields. The other set of fields, being 3 or 4 sectors away would create a set of long range battles to take the first field on the enemy front line, and then move to "close and dirty" fighting for the other 2 fields. With buffs and hi alt reinforcements coming in from other 3-set fields.

[Seeker]

"In AH we have D-9. D-13 "
<good stuff snipped>

Thanks. I don't know as much about the complicated marques as I'd like to. My meager Spit knowledge is not as extensive as the above.

However, I believe in general terms, in the rough classifications I'm capable of, we have what are argueable the best of their type in AH of each German fighter, that's to say, the 109 G10 (OK, it could be a K, but you guys seem unclear on the point), The 190 D (I've learnt more in your last post) and to be realistic, any 152 is yummy, thanks; not to mention the 262.


I see interminable arguments from experts on how the Lw stable should be widend or adapted on grounds of historical accuracy.

But who will these people fight and upon whom will they use thier weapons in their historical arena? The Spitfire would be excluded as either too early to be comparable or incorrectly armed to be "period" competative; and the only tank is Whermacht. Thus is the incessant Lw noise shown to be hollow; it is simply a wish for advantage; there is no historical yearning; on general terms for the game.

"And what comes to the Lw-whining...there are whiners whining about many planes and they aren't all "
<more realy good stuff snipped  >

Well said Sir! <Bows, guilty as charged>

But I counter with this: We are all obsessive, this is a joke book typical obsessive nerds hobby. Indeed in every sim, in every game I've ever played there have been "authenticity" bores and wars. Airwarrior's will remember with horror the pedantic "Bring the P-39 to AW" campaign, or shudder at the question of "why did the Betties die?"; I'm sure there were and are WB and AH equivalents.

But only in AH have I seen so many of the bores, and so many wars come from one source, in such an organised manner as to be indentifyable. I don't know why this is. Every sim has it's fanatics, but usualy madness is a random sample. Do we even have an AH word for the Italian version of Luftwhine? Is Gatt a Spaghetti-wobble (ducks rotten fruit) or is Verm just an out and out Commie? You see?

"Anyways I hope you weren't referring to me with that "Lw-whiner" "

Hell no! Strangely, around 50% of my on-line friends fly axis planes, some to great effect.

None of them are luftwhiners either.

<S!>

[Wotan]

This post isnt about planesets and I haven't read a spit whine in here.

So those of you that cant stay on topic go else where.

Urchins contention is that late war faster planes will desired in the main because thats the best way to ensure you get out alive.

Also my squad flies together Urchin is part of my squad. We get lots of folks beyond what they kill us regardless the odds. But the fact remains that with the greater main numbers we see the new maps have a smaller front area then the older one(s) (a1 center /beta map). While the baltic map spreads the se nw front out a bit the se nw and nw ne fronts are limited but this map is much more playable then mindinao or the uterus map. The island map spreads it out a bit aswell but i hate the island map  .

A larger map with more bases imho would help, not cure the gangbang. Folks go where they can get the easiest kills. The gangbang vulch is the place to get those easy kills.

with these smaller maps the mission planner is so much more a gangbang planner because there are only some many places to run a mission to. These are always front line bases and with 20-30 in the mission plus the non-mission folks already there gangbang is inevitable.

Basically we have "choke points" or "bottlenecks". Larger area map wont get rid of gangbanging but maybe by gettin rid of those "bottlenecks" we can have a more "balanced war" then the current.(by balanced I mean in its distribution over a larger scale).

I would think you fluffers would be all for that  .

[Don]

>>I see interminable arguments from experts on how the Lw stable should be widend or adapted on grounds of historical accuracy.
But who will these people fight and upon whom will they use thier weapons in historical arena?<<

Seeker:
The wartime (WW2) ear saw an interminable technological competition between the warring countries which resulted in variants in virtually all models of German and British a/c. There was a desperate one upmanship which continually upped the ante and made germany hardpressed to keep up the longer the war lasted. Just because the Germans developed the TA-152 doesn't mean it should be implemented in the MA in large numbers, because in reality there were few ever produced or flown. It is correct then that if there is a D-9 in the MA, there should be a Spit XIV. Keep in mind though, the spits of later vintage were less nimble than their predecessors. They were powerful as hell with bigger engines and larger props to drive them, consistent with the evolution of fighters of the time.